The Cov-Idiots Thread (Morons Of The Corona Pandemic)

pinball wizard

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Not sure how you can know that. You're basing that opinion on the number of people that got sick and died, with all the travel restrictions, lockdowns and other government interventions in place. We don't know how bad things would have gotten if governments had done nothing. If you think the interventions were an overreaction that might just be a sign that the interventions actually worked in minimising the effects if the pandemic.
There are places like Sweden.

There are also 50 odd states in America that were left to decide for themselves. Everything from Florida who went even more lax than Sweden to California who locked it all up tighter than Bheki Cele's tee-totalling arsehole. The stats from the states show almost zero difference in death rates between states that locked up and states that didn't. The last I checked, Texas, who let people decide what to do for themselves, was pretty squarely in the middle of the ranking.
 

C4Cat

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Take a look at Sweden for example. They were once the laughing stock. Look at them now...
You can't look at one country in isolation. Lockdowns in other countries, especially Scandanavian countries, would have meant less people travelling in and out of Sweden - so even without local lockdowns you can't say what the situation would have been like had no governments intervened. The death rate in Sweden was far higher than in the other Scandanavian countries, for example
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And @pinball wizard is correct. The overreaction, and that's putting it mildly, was and still is that Covid is the be all and end all for governments the world over. It became more important than basic human rights... More important than social interactions and joy... More important than mental and physical health... More important than earning a living... And mostly, more important than all other diseases combined...
Again, there is no way you can know that it was an over-reaction. Unless you can duplicate the world and compare the results of government intervention vs no government intervention you won't know what the situation would have been without the intervention. The USA and UK both who failed to introduce lockdowns initially hint that things could have been far worse for the world
 

SlinkyMike

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Not sure how you can know that. You're basing that opinion on the number of people that got sick and died, with all the travel restrictions, lockdowns and other government interventions in place. We don't know how bad things would have gotten if governments had done nothing. If you think the interventions were an overreaction that might just be a sign that the interventions actually worked in minimising the effects if the pandemic.
"This ABS system sucks, we never crash when it's on!"
 

pinball wizard

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Again, there is no way you can know that it was an over-reaction. Unless you can duplicate the world and compare the results of government intervention vs no government intervention you won't know what the situation would have been without the intervention. The USA and UK both who failed to introduce lockdowns initially hint that things could have been far worse for the world
I know it's anecdotal, but I'll use the example of the informal settlements and townships of SA during the crackdowns here. Most people would agree that all the crackdown regulations were largely ignored in those environments, and yet the bodies did not pile up waist high. That's an indicator of crackdowns (the middle class neighbourhoods who Karen'd it at followed the rules) vs no-crackdowns. All the crackdowns appear to have down is lengthen the pandemic in terms of slowing down the spread of the virus, but not actually doing anything regarding it being spread.
 

Rouxenator

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Very presumptuous to group yourself in that category.
I do consider myself/(everyone) to be cov-idiots - so yeah, I'll group myself into any group.

Strongly agree. Nuance is a thing.


SARS-CoV-2 will almost certainly settle into an endemic pattern. I am pretty sure all sources agree on that.


Helluva leap there. Like, wild.

What makes the lab conspiracy more obvious than wet markets or bat guano? Recall that this is not the first 'bird flu' scare, covid type viruses have been on the radar for decades.
'China flu' is new phenomenon though. We only have this as result of the politicisation of the pandemic for the benefit of Donald Trump. The lab theory is a right wing conspiracy designed to demonise the Chinese, not that they are blameless in the least, so, grey areas, right?


Refer your first point. A virus will settle into a non-lethal pattern as this is the optimal configuration. It is suboptimal for the virus own survival to kill its hosts.


Of course.
Very good reply - I do appreciate that.

Yes, this is a new virus and it spreads like one, it will kill a lot of people at the start then the rest that who are more immune to it will simply live with it, like we do with flu, Herpes and so many other viruses.

Helluva leap indeed - and it is about the point where we leave the realm of what is known and enter pure speculation. So let's speculate then - if it was bat poop - then why only now? Presumably they have been doing this for centuries. Why does this coincide with the US trade war? Why is China now saying they will not aid in any investigation? Considering China's history and their illustrious display of human rights abuses, is it that wrong to demonise China? But cool, let's settle on grey areas as this is all speculation and thanks to China's attitude it will stay that way forever.

Still, excellent reply - I appreciate constructive debate.
 

C4Cat

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I know it's anecdotal, but I'll use the example of the informal settlements and townships of SA during the crackdowns here. Most people would agree that all the crackdown regulations were largely ignored in those environments, and yet the bodies did not pile up waist high. That's an indicator of crackdowns (the middle class neighbourhoods who Karen'd it at followed the rules) vs no-crackdowns.
No, I disagree. All taxi services stopped during the hard lockdown, alcohol was harder to come by and millions of people did try to stick to regulations, even in the townships. Even if it's true that crackdown regulations were largely ignored in those environments (and I haven't seen any evidence that this the case, just assumptions) they don't exist in isolation. Less travel in and out of these areas, people in surrounding areas following regulations all had an effect everywhere. And the ridiculous notion that because "bodies did not pile up waist high" means the restrictions had no effect is just silly. Millions could die in a country of 60 million and if it wasn't happening around you specifically you would not see it. Do you really, literally, require bodies piling up in the streets before you'll consider a pandemic dangerous?
 

Sinbad

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pinball wizard

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Millions could die in a country of 60 million and if it wasn't happening around you specifically you would not see it. Do you really, literally, require bodies piling up in the streets before you'll consider a pandemic dangerous?
Neither of those things even came close to happening. They (the government institutions I alluded to earlier) told us, and based all their actions on the fact that 300 000 would die last year from this in SA alone.

That's so hopelessly out of touch with reality, yet our entire response to this pandemic was based on it. I know I'm as dumb as a stump, but that seems to be an overreaction.
 

C4Cat

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Neither of those things even came close to happening. They (the government institutions I alluded to earlier) told us, and based all their actions on the fact that 300 000 would die last year from this in SA alone.

That's so hopelessly out of touch with reality, yet our entire response to this pandemic was based on it. I know I'm as dumb as a stump, but that seems to be an overreaction.
I never said that millions were dying, I was making a point that you requiring bodies piling up in the streets before considering a pandemic dangerous is stupid.
 

Hush9300

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You can't look at one country in isolation. Lockdowns in other countries, especially Scandanavian countries, would have meant less people travelling in and out of Sweden - so even without local lockdowns you can't say what the situation would have been like had no governments intervened. The death rate in Sweden was far higher than in the other Scandanavian countries, for example
View attachment 1117146

Really? We're measuring the effects of interventions vs no interventions and you put up a Covid only deaths chart... You have to measure all natural cause mortality over the period and then where they're at now.


All except Norway are currently worse off.

Again, there is no way you can know that it was an over-reaction. Unless you can duplicate the world and compare the results of government intervention vs no government intervention you won't know what the situation would have been without the intervention. The USA and UK both who failed to introduce lockdowns initially hint that things could have been far worse for the world
We don't need to run alternate simulations because there are countries and states, in the case of USA, that did that little experiment on behalf of us and their excess deaths are no worse than those who implemented interventions. What you proclaim would have been true had the idea of "Zero Covid" been viable but, as it turns out, it was a fools errand. You see it in the data that countries and states which intervened strongly continue to experience higher rates of excess mortality as opposed to those who didn't intervene strongly.

It's called 'Dry Tinder.' All these interventions, at best, only kicked the bucket down the road.
 
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C4Cat

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Really? We're measuring the effects of interventions vs no interventions and you put up a Covid only deaths chart... You have to measure all natural cause mortality over the period and then where they're at now.


All except Norway are currently worse off.
According to your graph Sweden's excess deaths came right down when they introduced restrictions in January this year, and lockdown measures in February, as well as starting a vaccination program. Before that it had way higher peaks than the other countries in the list. Supporting my assertion that government interventions have an effect. Thanks!
 

LCBXX

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So a bunch of conservative conspiracy nuts copy the doctors original tweet and create a screenshare to make it look like it's fake and you fell for it. Well done :thumbsup:
Always a pleasure. Remember, it wasn't lies, "the science changed".
 
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