The Cruelest Cut: Capped for life at age zero

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,546
why is it often done?

Female one is weird its been done in africa long before religions even, i dunno seems like a northern african tradition that keeps going :(

I think the acceptance of male circumcision has to do with religion, cultures and just well simplicity? There are little to complications widely renowned as consequences for male circumcision particularly if done after birth. And lets face it, guys are just guys! unless you are 1/2 dieing guys by societal norms are unlikely to complain about much.
 

brogiolo

Active Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
62
WJA I hope you find peace!!!

I agree ANY mutilation is wrong. I am Jewish and did not circumcise either of my two boys, just could not bring myself to do it. If G-d wants to punish me for it – so be it.

So please, I am in no way for any of this stuff - But come on guys seriously; as much as all cutting is wrong, do you honestly believe that it makes no difference if it is done with a blunt dirty instrument as opposed to a sterile effective one?

PLUS...You guys still get to enjoy your sex, even if you have had something removed.... Those poor girls will never have joy from their sex... Not quite apples for apples....
 

brogiolo

Active Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
62
Female Genital Mutilation

Female one is weird its been done in africa long before religions even, i dunno seems like a northern african tradition that keeps going :(

It is done to remove the "pleasure gland" to keep girls from being promiscuous and/or straying; Kind of like an un-lockable permanent chastity belt. Many African and Arab cultures do it to keep the women "pure"

"It is often motivated by beliefs about what is considered proper sexual behaviour, linking procedures to premarital virginity and marital fidelity. It is believed by some to reduce a woman's libido and help her resist "illicit" sexual acts. However it is also an act whereby the "female opening" is actually sown closed whereby a woman is physically hindered from premarital sex. Afterwards, a painful procedure is needed to reopen the closure to enable sexual intercourse.
It is also associated with cultural ideals of femininity and modesty, which include the notion that girls are “clean” and "beautiful" after removal of body parts that are considered "male" or "unclean". "
 

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
49,747
There is absolutely no qualitive difference between the two acts. They are BOTH genital mutilation and as such, anyone who violates another person thus without a *truly* sound medical reason deserves nothing less than to be charged with assault with intent to do grevious bodily harm.

+1
 

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
49,747
Trust me if I have boys one day they will have the snip there is no doubt about that

Good for you.. though it is still in question if you and Pooky will even be able to reproduce. hehe, anyways if you want to mutilate your kids genitals.. thats your thing. sis.
 

ZA.Schmidt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
660
This is an issue that constantly irks me. How is having the foreskin removed any worse that having a vasectomy, or having your tonsils removed? There are proven medical benifits and apart from slightly rediced sensitivity, it has little effect on your sex-life at all.

I also find it bizarre that 90% of the people against circumcision are uncircumcised - what's it to you? I'm circumcised (I'm Jewish) and I think it's a totally personal thing and the idea of making it illegal and calling it 'mutilation' is actually quite offensive.
 
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Claymore

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
8,340
Trust me if I have boys one day they will have the snip there is no doubt about that

Why?

This is an issue that constantly irks me. How is having the foreskin removed any worse that having a vasectomy, or having your tonsils removed? There are proven medical benifits and apart from slightly rediced sensitivity, it has little effect on your sex-life at all.

Well, firstly, the majority of the nerves in the penis are in the foreskin. If you call that "slightly reduced", it makes me wonder if you actually have experience.
Secondly, if someone wants to have themselves circumcised, good for them. It's not ethical to force it on others though.
Thirdly, there are no "proven medical benefits" - if there were, all the medical associations in the world might be recommending it. Currently, none are.

I also find it bizarre that 90% of the people against circumcision are uncircumcised - what's it to you? I'm circumcised (I'm Jewish) and I think it's a totally personal thing and the idea of making it illegal and calling it 'mutilation' is actually quite offensive.

Of course it's a totally personal thing - personal to the person who owns the penis, not to anyone else.
And as for mutilation - what would you call the forced removal of functional, healthy sexual body parts from unconsenting babies?
 

ZA.Schmidt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
660
And as for mutilation - what would you call the forced removal of functional, healthy sexual body parts from unconsenting babies?

What do you call the removal of functional, healthy tonsils? I had them removed when I was 4 and obviously I had no say in the matter. Big deal. As for the guys talking about remembering their circumcision; if you do, it must have been done very badly. It should be done as soon as you're born and if you remember pain then it's the fault of your parents/doctors and not the practise itself.

I just can't understand what all the fuss is about.
 

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
49,747
I guess a lot of circumcised guys will be touchy about this topic. To them its okay cause "mom said so". They are missing a part of them and just about nothing will bring that part back. So to avoid the feeling of "less than" , or "I was done in by my parents", they try to defend the genital mutilation as though its normal "cause their parents did it". They try shrug off the data that contradict their beliefs and use any bit of information (no matter how wrong) to justify that getting snipped is a good thing. Whether they do this out of ignorance or embarrassment is dependent on the person. Though they might not see it as either.

I am only against this practice if it is done to a child. Adults can chose how they want to mutilate themselves.

Kim.. if you want to mutilate your kids genitals.. why dont you mutilate your own first to see how it feels? If your son doesnt need his foreskin, you dont need that clitoris.
 
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Claymore

Executive Member
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Jan 20, 2004
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What do you call the removal of functional, healthy tonsils? I had them removed when I was 4 and obviously I had no say in the matter.

Were your tonsils healthy? Or were they removed because of recurring bouts of tonsilitis?

(And if they were healthy, then they should not have been removed).

Big deal. As for the guys talking about remembering their circumcision; if you do, it must have been done very badly. It should be done as soon as you're born and if you remember pain then it's the fault of your parents/doctors and not the practise itself.

Looking at it from the point of view of a parent: whether or not my child remembers it, I am not going to inflict pain on my child unless absolutely necessary. Just because pain is not remembered doesn't mean it didn't happen. Or are you suggesting that it's OK to hurt babies because they don't remember it?
 

WJA

New Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
9
The Childrens Act 38 of 2005 (Amended 2007)

INTERPRETATION

  • “abuse”, in relation to a child, means any form of harm or ill-treatment deliberately inflicted on a child, and includes- (a) assaulting a child or inflicting any other form of deliberate injury to a child;
  • “care”, in relation to a child, includes, where appropriate - discrimination, exploitation and any other physical, emotional or moral harm or hazards;
    (4 respecting, protecting, promoting and securing the fulfilment of, and
    guarding against any infingement of, the child’s rights set out in the Bill
    of Rights and the principles set out in Chapter 2 of this Act;
  • “child” means a person under the age of 18 years;
  • “exploitation”, in relation to a child, includes - the removal of body parts;
  • “neglect”, in relation to a child, means a failure in the exercise of parental
    responsibilities to provide for the child’s basic physical, intellectual, emotional or social needs;
  • “removal of body parts” means the removal of any organ or other body part from a living person in contravention of the National Health Act, 2003 (Act No. 61 of 2003);

The objects of this Act are-
(a) to promote the preservation and strengthening of families;
(b) to give effect to the following constitutional rights of children, namely-
(iv) that the best interests of a child are of paramount importance in every matter concerning the child;​

Best interests of child paramount
In all matters concerning the care, protection and well-being of a child the standard that the child’s best interest is of paramount importance, must be applied.

The need to protect the child from any physical or psychological harm that may be caused by
(i) subjecting the child to maltreatment, abuse, neglect, exploitation or
degradation or exposing the child to violence or exploitation or other
harmful behaviour​

Social, cultural and religious practices
(8) Circumcision of male children under the age of 16 is prohibited, except when-
(a) circumcision is performed for religious purposes in accordance with the practices of the religion concerned and in the manner prescribed; or
(b) circumcision is performed for medical reasons on the recommendation of a medical practitioner.​

OFFENSES
A person convicted of an offence in terms of subsection (l)(s) is, in addition to a sentence for any other offence of which he or she may be convicted, liable to a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 20 years or to both a fine and such imprisonment.
 

Surv0

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
5,742
Who actually gives a flying f*k?

If you dont want to circumsise your child then dont, dont go on about whether its right or wrong, its like arguing about religion.

And the person usually arguing that its bad, is uncut and just jealous.

I was circumsized, through medical recommendations from the doctor who is a family friend and my mother who was a nurse.

never once have i experienced anything that was listed above. If anything my life is better, an uncut penis looks bloody disgusting, and every girl ive been with prefers a cut man. Its cleanier, better looking, and so what if it decreases sensitivity, dont wanna be a 1minute man neway.
 

ZA.Schmidt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
660
Looks like logic won't win here...

'Abuse' is extremely vague and can be applied to practically any act. By your logic getting your daughter's ears pierced (not that I think this is important at all) as a young child is also 'mutilation'.
 

Surv0

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
5,742
From experience, i know that having a cut penis isnt bad, who cares about what is said about having it done, my life is fine.
I will pass on the snip to my son.
 

ZA.Schmidt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
660
I was circumsized, through medical recommendations from the doctor who is a family friend and my mother who was a nurse.

never once have i experienced anything that was listed above. If anything my life is better, an uncut penis looks bloody disgusting, and every girl ive been with prefers a cut man. Its cleanier, better looking, and so what if it decreases sensitivity, dont wanna be a 1minute man neway.

This, religious reasons aside. Uncut is just filthy.
 
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