The DA is in total crisis.

Do the DA need a new leader?

  • Yes

    Votes: 119 82.1%
  • No

    Votes: 26 17.9%
  • MMusi saw this poll and resigned.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Epstein didn't kill himself.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    145
  • Poll closed .

Sollie

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
6,294
There has been a steady move to the far left and far right (in SA context) in the past few years.

Then DA decided they want to shed more voters by failing to deal with internal politics, allowing their wranglings to spill over to the public domain.
The DA has not been consistent ito policy, which also earned them the nickname DA Lite, trying to pamper and attract voters.

Yet we're in injury time in South Africa and many clear headed voters are risk averse, they'd rather vote for something where they believe they know exactly what the party stands for. Perhaps this is a good sign?
 

Nerfherder

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
24,819
For a white person to support the EFF is like for a black person to support apartheid. It is self defeating.

But I think they are doing it for the attention/trolling. If you are white and you go into a normally "black" space(taxi rank/shop, restaurant, bar, shabeen) that's not used to seeing a lot of white people, everyone is extremely friendly and welcoming. You get a lot of attention, maybe they like that.
Some black people did support apartheid just like there were white people who supported the struggle.

You will always get contrarians. Its not trolling, its just bucking the trend.
 

ForceFate

Honorary Master
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
21,049
Some black people did support apartheid just like there were white people who supported the struggle.

You will always get contrarians. Its not trolling, its just bucking the trend.
To some extend, IFP supported apartheid, together with a bunch of others
 

thechamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
24,723
To some extend, IFP supported apartheid, together with a bunch of others
Most homeland leaders were happy with, some like Gatsha even enjoyed the elevated kingship like status he was given, that's why he felt like he had so much to lose with the introduction of democracy.
 

konfab

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
22,663
Most homeland leaders were happy with, some like Gatsha even enjoyed the elevated kingship like status he was given, that's why he felt like he had so much to lose with the introduction of democracy.
Incorrect.

The situation of South Africa in the world scene as well as internal community relations requires in our view an acceptance of certain fundamental concept for the economic social and constitutional development of our country.

We respectfully record five principles on the basis of which we believe all our people can co-operate.

1. Change in South Africa must be brought about by peaceful means.

2. Opportunity must be afforded to all our people for material and educational advancement. The economy must be available to serve the needs of all able and willing to contribute, and the wealth, labour and expertise of our country should be harnessed to provide job and entrepreneurial opportunity for all groups.

3. Constitutions, blue prints and plans for the future should not be made by only some of the people for all others, they must be made with people. Consultation and dialogue lead to government by consent and with this in mind and as a first step a consultative council representative of all groups in South Africa should be constituted at the earliest opportunity.

4. The federal concept appears to provide the best framework on which to seek a constitutional solution for a South Africa free from domination by any group over others and ensuring the security of all its people.

5. Any constitutional proposals for South Africans must:

(i) Safeguard the identity and culture of the various groups constituting the people of South Africa.

(ii) Include a bill of rights to safeguard the fundamental concepts of natural justice.

On the basis of these principles we declare our faith in a South Africa of equal opportunity, happiness, security and people for all its people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahlabatini_Declaration_of_Faith

Just remember the historical context. The ANC had been waging a people's war against other opposition groups to the Apartheid government. The ANC wanted to make sure that when Apartheid ended, their people would be left running the country.
 

spiff

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,029
If you are going to have a collectivist thing like a municipality, you need a elected person like a counselor to represent the people who can then appoint specialist as needed.

Any collection of people require some committee/politician/political party.
why not let it be run by the rate payers association?
 

newjourno

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
563
Some black people did support apartheid just like there were white people who supported the struggle.

You will always get contrarians. Its not trolling, its just bucking the trend.
I've yet to meet a black person who supported Apartheid, but I suppose that some of the puppets who the NP appointed to govern areas would have preferred it to losing their power after 94.

Generally, a lot of older white academics were involved in the struggle. A few of my lecturers at University were.
 

newjourno

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
563
It's going to look really bad for the DA if the LGE next year if they don't grow. Of course it is still very much early days and unfair to judge JS so far, but he faces a difficult task to rebuild this party.

Judging by the party's performance in by-elections, it does not look like the 2% who the DA are trying to win back take him seriously. A lot of right-wing trolls on Twitter have been making a mockery of him by sharing the clip of him calling the VF+ extremists.

If the DA don't hold JS to the same accountability as MM (which is a realistic scenario given their performances in by-elections so far), its not going to look good. But they can't. JS also needs politics unlike MM who has Church to fall back on as he is a career politician.

There was also somewhat always a sense of scepticism between Afrikaans voters and the DA so them losing the Afrikaans voters was never really a shock if we are being honest but holding JS accountable (if said scenario happens) would alienate sections of the white English community who are vital to the DA.

They could soon be back to were they were in 94 if they don't play their cards right.
 

Nerfherder

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
24,819
I've yet to meet a black person who supported Apartheid, but I suppose that some of the puppets who the NP appointed to govern areas would have preferred it to losing their power after 94.

Generally, a lot of older white academics were involved in the struggle. A few of my lecturers at University were.
Remember that there were police informants and black people working at vlakplaas.

Stompie Sepei was also killed because they believed he was an informant. It would have been a massive problem for them, people of all colours end up being rats.
 

newjourno

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
563
Remember that there were police informants and black people working at vlakplaas.

Stompie Sepei was also killed because they believed he was an informant. It would have been a massive problem for them, people of all colours end up being rats.

These are not people who actively supported Apartheid though. They were impoverished people who sold information to the Apartheid government for material gain, not because they preferred it. Humans will do odd things when in desperate situations.

The black people given jobs were also not treated the same as their white counterparts.
 

BBSA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
13,610
DURBAN – Democratic Alliance (DA) interim leader John Steenhuisen said that his party under former leader Mmusi Maimane focused too much on bashing the African National Congress (ANC).

He said if he was elected as party leader in May, this would change to be more solution-oriented.

 

newjourno

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
563
DURBAN – Democratic Alliance (DA) interim leader John Steenhuisen said that his party under former leader Mmusi Maimane focused too much on bashing the African National Congress (ANC).

He said if he was elected as party leader in May, this would change to be more solution-oriented.

JS was being hypocritical here because he was doing the same and should take collective responsibility for this as did Trollip.

I do however have a feeling that the party will start taking collective responsibility next year when they don't grow in the LGE. That looks like it will happen because the VF+ and their supporters don't seem to take JS seriously and probably won't be brought back.
 

Barbarian Conan

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
1,494
JS was being hypocritical here because he was doing the same and should take collective responsibility for this as did Trollip.

I do however have a feeling that the party will start taking collective responsibility next year when they don't grow in the LGE. That looks like it will happen because the VF+ and their supporters don't seem to take JS seriously and probably won't be brought back.
What were their roles within the party, and what could they have done different within those roles?
 
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