The Economist: To stop the rot in South Africa, back Cyril Ramaphosa

itsme2

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#41
Then that is even more reason to vote for the ANC. I know, but hear me out.
If we assume the ANC is going to win (anyone disagree?) then they will win either by a high margin or a low one. If they lose a lot of support and win by a low margin then that would be an excuse for getting rid of Ramaphosa - an opposing faction can show he has no support from the people and does not have the confidence of the voters. Then we end up without any chance of cleaning up the party and the corrupt will be back in charge of the ANC. If, however, they win with a high margin, it will be far more difficult for any faction to just get rid of him - he will have proven that he has a strong mandate from the people who trust his leadership. :unsure: We would have to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his promise to clean up corruption which is, admittedly, the difficult part, but he needs a strong and clear mandate from the voters to even get that chance...
Just one problem with your theory. You're assuming in party politics behaves in a rational way. If there are powers that want him gone, regardless, it will happen.
 

BBSA

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#42
If you guys think he's the same or will be the same as Zuma then why go through the charade of removing the state capture participants from institutions they still infest? He's appointed competent ministers at key ministries even though he's obviously hamstrung by the need to keep a united ANC. He's definitely guilty of still placing party before country but I think it's better than the alternative.
Ramaphosa is not the ANC, the criminals are still on their list. You are naive if you think the ANC will self correct.
 

R13...

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#43
Then that is even more reason to vote for the ANC. I know, but hear me out.
If we assume the ANC is going to win (anyone disagree?) then they will win either by a high margin or a low one. If they lose a lot of support and win by a low margin then that would be an excuse for getting rid of Ramaphosa - an opposing faction can show he has no support from the people and does not have the confidence of the voters. Then we end up without any chance of cleaning up the party and the corrupt will be back in charge of the ANC. If, however, they win with a high margin, it will be far more difficult for any faction to just get rid of him - he will have proven that he has a strong mandate from the people who trust his leadership. :unsure: We would have to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his promise to clean up corruption which is, admittedly, the difficult part, but he needs a strong and clear mandate from the voters to even get that chance...
The corruption faction will pounce whether he earns a strong or weak mandate regardless. But yes you're right, it'll be a lot harder for them to justify it if he earns a strong mandate and easier if he doesn't. Problem for the corrupt faction is that they cannot afford to standby and let all their past misdeeds catch to them and then have them end up in prison. So they'll keep digging (hopefully their own graves), but if they see a gap they'll take it.

This new scorpions like corruption prosecutions unit he's busy establishing is a problem they can't ignore. He can use it to rid himself, the country and the ANC of the rotten lot and they'll fight hard to keep that from happening plus the unit is being mandated to recover looted resources.
 

itsme2

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#44
Hey let's be fair Nelson for us into a good place with international investors and such we would be even more ****ed if it wasn't for him and Mbeki.

**** got a bit pear shaped after that.
If Nelson Mandela hadn't taken this path, and if the majority of people didn't follow him, and his lead, there would have been a civil war in SA. He did a lot of good for SA. It's a pity that the NP tried to fleece him right to the end, but he did what he had to do.
 

R13...

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#45
You are naive if you think the ANC will self correct.
Don't project, I make no such claims. I say over and over that they are rotten not sure where you get the idea that I think they'll self correct when I say the corrupt are working to remove him.
 

konfab

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#47
Then that is even more reason to vote for the ANC. I know, but hear me out.
If we assume the ANC is going to win (anyone disagree?) then they will win either by a high margin or a low one. If they lose a lot of support and win by a low margin then that would be an excuse for getting rid of Ramaphosa - an opposing faction can show he has no support from the people and does not have the confidence of the voters. Then we end up without any chance of cleaning up the party and the corrupt will be back in charge of the ANC. If, however, they win with a high margin, it will be far more difficult for any faction to just get rid of him - he will have proven that he has a strong mandate from the people who trust his leadership. :unsure: We would have to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his promise to clean up corruption which is, admittedly, the difficult part, but he needs a strong and clear mandate from the voters to even get that chance...
Why would it be more difficult for a faction to remove him? The ANC, by history and by their attitudes towards service delivery DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE MANDATE OF THE PEOPLE.
 

BBSA

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#48
Don't project, I make no such claims. I say over and over that they are rotten not sure where you get the idea that I think they'll self correct when I say the corrupt are working to remove him.
Still you want the heynas to control our tax money?
 

DreamKing

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#50
no one remembered CR was the deputy president when zuma in charge, he is the major component of the zuma camp.

and today, suddenly he is the hero to rescue SA? messiah? the chosen one?

"economist" is a joke.
 

Lord Farquart

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#51
Then that is even more reason to vote for the ANC. I know, but hear me out.
If we assume the ANC is going to win (anyone disagree?) then they will win either by a high margin or a low one. If they lose a lot of support and win by a low margin then that would be an excuse for getting rid of Ramaphosa - an opposing faction can show he has no support from the people and does not have the confidence of the voters. Then we end up without any chance of cleaning up the party and the corrupt will be back in charge of the ANC. If, however, they win with a high margin, it will be far more difficult for any faction to just get rid of him - he will have proven that he has a strong mandate from the people who trust his leadership. :unsure: We would have to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his promise to clean up corruption which is, admittedly, the difficult part, but he needs a strong and clear mandate from the voters to even get that chance...
Then ends that you guys would got to to justify your blind loyalty. Seriously dude, a snake is a snake.
 

ɹǝuuᴉM

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#52
The corruption faction will pounce whether he earns a strong or weak mandate regardless. But yes you're right, it'll be a lot harder for them to justify it if he earns a strong mandate and easier if he doesn't. Problem for the corrupt faction is that they cannot afford to standby and let all their past misdeeds catch to them and then have them end up in prison. So they'll keep digging (hopefully their own graves), but if they see a gap they'll take it.

This new scorpions like corruption prosecutions unit he's busy establishing is a problem they can't ignore. He can use it to rid himself, the country and the ANC of the rotten lot and they'll fight hard to keep that from happening plus the unit is being mandated to recover looted resources.
You know that Ramaphosa & Co basically destroyed the mighty South African mining sector. Not only he did that but he did it in record time. It goes without saying: Him and Co. become multi Billionaires in the process. The question is: at whose expense? #LiveWithIt
 

ToxicBunny

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#53
You know that Ramaphosa & Co basically destroyed the mighty South African mining sector. Not only he did that but he did it in record time. It goes without saying: Him and Co. become multi Billionaires in the process. The question is: at whose expense? #LiveWithIt
Mind explaining how they destroyed the mining sector..
.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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#55
The Economist, well known liberal delusion outlet, publishing such drivel isn't the least bit surprising.

anti-Trump
anti-Brexit
pro-ANC

now where did I leave my surprise face? can't fake it without it!
 

krycor

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#56
Since we elect parties not persons it would be dumb. 2ndly EFF seems keen to align with the ANC so you need to consider their combined vote total being less than 2/3rds.

I understand the whole CR gets a good vote tally means he has support but the reality is in SA it’s political party based. ie regardless of % if ace, zuma and co pay everyone enough they will kick him out faster than Mbeki (which actually took some work). I dunno the stakes seem high enough for the party to want him out by December.
 

thechamp

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#57
Since we elect parties not persons it would be dumb. 2ndly EFF seems keen to align with the ANC so you need to consider their combined vote total being less than 2/3rds.

I understand the whole CR gets a good vote tally means he has support but the reality is in SA it’s political party based. ie regardless of % if ace, zuma and co pay everyone enough they will kick him out faster than Mbeki (which actually took some work). I dunno the stakes seem high enough for the party to want him out by December.
Where will they find enough money to pay everyone? Have you forgotten they depended on state capture to do that? If they failed to pay enough for them to win the ANC Presidency when Zuma was still President I honestly don't see how they can manage that now.
 

BBSA

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#59
Where will they find enough money to pay everyone? Have you forgotten they depended on state capture to do that? If they failed to pay enough for them to win the ANC Presidency when Zuma was still President I honestly don't see how they can manage that now.
They only have to promise people wealth and power and the will switch sides. How do you think Zuma came to power? Remember this is the ANC we talking about.
 

C4Cat

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#60
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