The energy solution for South Africa is DC power.

Seriously

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Well the question we need to ask is sticking to 240V a good strategy? There are countries currently on 110VAC and it doesn't seem to affect them much. With the way technology is moving towards efficiency I think we need to also look at something lower. DC-DC is somewhat more efficient but the main drawing card is that it can be run directly without the use of an inverter.

What I am interested in though is exactly what can be powered off DC already. What motors, heating and cooking devices for example. I know some PC power supplies are DC compatible but haven't done any research on which ones exactly. Found this article. Seems a number of manufacturers and consortiums want to push for DC invalidating the objections that there's no support.

The justifications and reasons for the support you claim is 100% different than for your proposed abortion of a 12VDC bus as a home solution. I have one of those units so I can use and charge my laptop from my car lighter. Thats the main reason for most of your 12V capable power supplies and that is to be able to be used when away from the grid.
 

Seriously

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Well the question we need to ask is sticking to 240V a good strategy? .

Why not? The infrastructure is already here and there, wherever it may be.

http://www.dx.com/s/filament+led

http://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ed-bulb-four-reasons-why-leds-are-the-new-pcs

Lighting Science and Dixon today announced that the two will produce a 60-watt equivalent LED bulb for $15, effectively slashing the price of solid state lighting for consumers in half.
Since 2012 already.
 
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Seriously

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Well the question we need to ask is sticking to 240V a good strategy? There are countries currently on 110VAC and it doesn't seem to affect them much..

Really? You do know that most homes in the US are fed from a 220-240VAC center tapped transformer connected to their main grid supply?

Can you list how it does not affect them much?

Why your continued objection against 240VAC but you are now happy with 110VAC. There are some progress at least?

See this video from 10.40 on. ;)

[video=youtube;Ji5jH62wluE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji5jH62wluE[/video]
 
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Seriously

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I know some PC power supplies are DC compatible but haven't done any research on which ones exactly.

Really? Lets refresh your mind. You yourself posted this link. http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-12V.htm. So you now say you never analysed or researched the information yet you used the site information to support your claims that 12VDC are a viable option and solution in the home. You did then afterwards changed your story after we showed you with calcs the massive currents and cable sizes required to feed and use these supplies in a home environment. Remember the 360W PC "strawman" saga??
 

Seriously

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For those that questions the efficiency of inverters; Here is a good read to help you understand inverters and how they progressed over time.

http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/how-inverters-work

High-Frequency Transformerless Sine-Wave Inverters. This topology is starting to become available as inverter manufacturers compete to offer the highest efficiency inverter at the lowest cost for grid-tied PV applications. Removing the transformer eliminates its losses, allowing inverter efficiencies up to 98%.

Very usefull info

http://www.homepower.com/solar-electricity/design-installation
 
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Swa

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The use of 110 VAC comes from a time when scientists thought that the danger in electric shocks was the voltage. A lower voltage was chosen as it was thought to be safer.

We have since realised that this is not the case and that current is in fact the killer but the US and others following that standard are somewhat stuck with it. It does cause them problems though with all their reticulation obviously carrying double the current for the same power throughput. This means thicker cables, heavier circuit breakers and various other issues.

There has been some discussion and experimentation with the use of 230 VAC within certain closed environments to get around these issues. I have for example read about some US data centres that run at 230 V using equipment designed for those voltages. The savings in power cabling and the ability to increase the compute densities made significant differences to their costs.
Thing is that the scientists are right. While voltage isn't the main factor it is a factor.

Really? Lets refresh your mind. You yourself posted this link. http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-12V.htm. So you now say you never analysed or researched the information yet you used the site information to support your claims that 12VDC are a viable option and solution in the home. You did then afterwards changed your story after we showed you with calcs the massive currents and cable sizes required to feed and use these supplies in a home environment. Remember the 360W PC "strawman" saga??
I'm glad you're starting to see they are straw men. But they are your straw men so I won't respond to the junk you just raised here again. I see you also still like twisting what's said and taking things out of context to fit your agenda.

For those that questions the efficiency of inverters; Here is a good read to help you understand inverters and how they progressed over time.

http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/how-inverters-work



Very usefull info

http://www.homepower.com/solar-electricity/design-installation
Yes great, the usual "up to" weasel words. Like insurance from R50/pm and up to R10m payout. Are the two linked?
 

Seriously

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Thing is that the scientists are right. While voltage isn't the main factor it is a factor.


I'm glad you're starting to see they are straw men. But they are your straw men so I won't respond to the junk you just raised here again. I see you also still like twisting what's said and taking things out of context to fit your agenda.


Yes great, the usual "up to" weasel words. Like insurance from R50/pm and up to R10m payout. Are the two linked?

Some more Swa nonsensical BS.


Hey clever dude, I recently had a quick project to install a indicator in a industrial company using three LED lamps consisting of 24 leds each working off 3*1.5V AAA batteries. I connected them to a 4.5V DC power supply. Guess how much current each lamp draws? Exactly 0.6 Amps each. Guess how much light it gives? Well good enough for a indicator but for general lighting you will be wasting your time. So much for your 317 regulator and resistors plus LED's advice to make led lamps for the home.


Unfortunately you don't even know how to use current limiting resisters. Run to google again. :p I am well aware of LED drivers which are super expensive and current regulators.

I'll explain the process to you even though I don't expect you to understand it. It's entirely possible to connect a high power LED to a resister alone and it does work. The result isn't what you expect though. Your first problem is that of power dissipation. In order to make it function correctly a voltage must be selected to account for any voltage drops the power source may have. The high current required for super and ultra bright LEDs together with this voltage makes it rather impractical as the resister has to be of a high power rating. More than that as the voltage varies it results in varying brightness.

A better method is a circuit based on something like the LM317. It's a variable voltage regulator which means the brightness can be controlled and extra power is dissipated by the regulator and not the resister. Great for dimming applications. Where that isn't required though it would be better use a standard regulator that limits the voltage to just above the Vf of the LED and select a lower power resister based on that.

If you want to go all out there's the MOSFET-transistor current limiting circuits but again more expensive than the resistor solutions.

So sunshine more proof that your 12VDC home distribution system fallacy is a total farce conceived in your head or fictitious mind..

Next time stick to the PD religious threads as you are making enough your BS ass..sumptions and a tool of yourself there.
 
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Swa

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Not you again with your straw men. Thought you put them to rest already. :rolleyes:
 

Seriously

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Not you again with your straw men. Thought you put them to rest already. :rolleyes:

That is actually you have left to defend ALL your BS claims in this thread? You are an unique troll, post a lot of BS, never prove your ASS...sumptions and then shout strawmen when caught out as a prolific troll.

Here I told you 3*LED lamps are drawing 1.8AMPS, now tell us how is that a solution for home use? I bet you cant as you never calculate and justify the BS you preach.
 
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konfab

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This problem, like most other engineering problems does not have a one-size-fits all solution.
The people who only need lighting and low power devices such as laptops would be quite suitable to use 12V DC.

People looking to run larger appliances would probably be better off buying a large inverter as you don't really get 12V washing machines. And since load shedding will eventually end, you would end up requiring a transformer.
 

Swa

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That is actually you have left to defend ALL your BS claims in this thread? You are an unique troll, post a lot of BS, never prove your ASS...sumptions and then shout strawmen when caught out as a prolific troll.

Here I told you 3*LED lamps are drawing 1.8AMPS, now tell us how is that a solution for home use? I bet you cant as you never calculate and justify the BS you preach.
Whatever dude. The problem is still that you fail to realise you CAN'T win an argument with a straw man. I bet you still haven't looked at the links I provided and what a straw man actually is. You will just forever stay hopeless at debate. A moderator would just hold his head in anguish if he were to come across someone like you.

This problem, like most other engineering problems does not have a one-size-fits all solution.
The people who only need lighting and low power devices such as laptops would be quite suitable to use 12V DC.

People looking to run larger appliances would probably be better off buying a large inverter as you don't really get 12V washing machines. And since load shedding will eventually end, you would end up requiring a transformer.
Exactly what was said. Some devices work off AC and some off DC.
 

Seriously

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Whatever dude. The problem is still that you fail to realise you CAN'T win an argument with a straw man. I bet you still haven't looked at the links I provided and what a straw man actually is. You will just forever stay hopeless at debate. A moderator would just hold his head in anguish if he were to come across someone like you.


Exactly what was said. Some devices work off AC and some off DC.

Again you lie and everyone that partook in this thread knows it apart from one imbecile. :whistling: You just changed your mind as you tagged along. You never addressed the issues lodged about your fallacy claims like with the high current drawn at 12VDC over standard wiring. YOU claimed you can string a few LED's and 317 regulators together to replace the current lighting system in a home to replace the existing system and again I showed you it's not feasible on 12VDC. In short you made a massive fool of yourself thumsucking stupid ideas and when proven to you by many individual members it's not a workable solution then you just tagged along "modifying" you idea or just argued with a lot of thubsuck BS to make it seem a legit and viable solution. You still also never addressed the issue of the required logistics, modifications and sizes of the DC cable required and how you are going to wire a home legally without having to pull in a separate DC bus.
 
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Swa

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blah blah fallacy /snip.
Lol, you're the one using fallacies which you still don't understand. This is perfect example why debate should be made a compulsory graded school subject.
 

Seriously

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Lol, you're the one using fallacies which you still don't understand. This is perfect example why debate should be made a compulsory graded school subject.

Another SWA COP OUT. You are really something. Make vast claims in this thread acting if you know something with googled ideas and when caught out as a liar you sing a straw man song. Just like in PD. ]

I still wish to hear more of the science of your story again about the voltage drop of the source supply causing the voltage loss over the copper wire and not the resistance of the cable. Where did you dig or scratch that one out, the left or right side?
 

Swa

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You should ask for your nick to be renamed Hilariously as this is just plain hilarious. There we have it folks, pointing out someone's fallacies is now a cop out. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.
 

Seriously

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You should ask for your nick to be renamed Hilariously as this is just plain hilarious. There we have it folks, pointing out someone's fallacies is now a cop out. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.

The cop out is that you refuse to justify all your claims in this thread but I take it you prefer not to do so as you would show everyone how idiotic your thumbsucked ideas and how wrong your BS and incorrect engineering "facts" and solutions really are. Just stick to your religious fallacies as there you are in your element although it's very clear you even fail at religious debates as well as religion.
 

Swa

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The cop out is that you think repeating you fallacies ad nauseam will make them valid. I am not going to rehash a thread that has become unsavable from all your garbage. All has been asked and answered and it's quite funny you see yourself as the authority on accuracy when you've spewed enough crap here yourself.

You just gave me a good idea for a recruitment test. Set up a simple fallacy questionnaire. If someone can't understand it they shouldn't be employed.
 

Seriously

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The cop out is that you think repeating you fallacies ad nauseam will make them valid. I am not going to rehash a thread that has become unsavable from all your garbage. All has been asked and answered and it's quite funny you see yourself as the authority on accuracy when you've spewed enough crap here yourself.

You just gave me a good idea for a recruitment test. Set up a simple fallacy questionnaire. If someone can't understand it they shouldn't be employed.


There you go still thinking up more BS to feel and trying very hard to make the impression (in your head) that you are relevant in life. Just like in PD you play a front of a christian believer and post garbage to justify it. In the mean time you cause more damage that worth you pathetic while. Shame, must be such a lonely life experience. Sad indeed.

Again explain me how the source is the culprit of the voltage drop and not the 2.5mm2 cable. Then explain how can we get double the amps out of DC on the same cable. What did you say? 30Amps???????? Will have to check back again as you posted so much BS it can fill your bible.

Hahahahahaha. I would love you to explain that one for sho.
 
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Swa

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There you have it everyone. Well thought out debate philosophy recognised the world over is now "thought up BS." WOW. JUST WOW.
 

Wasabee!

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The reason this won't work cause if it was that great for the intended application it would already have been done.

#justsayin
 
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