The energy solution for South Africa is DC power.

[P924]

NO! He knows nothing but at least tries hard to impress others that do not know better.

I am pretty sure anybody that reads this thread - regardless of how much they know - will not be impressed by anything SWA has posted.

 

[Seriously]

Take a look at the real figures. 80% + 80% is ~60%. There's no thumbsuck there. The only thumbsuck again is your straw man of busbars for low voltage high power. But hey, you won't know that as you demonstrably don't know what a straw man is. So now you are advocating a bigger panel over efficiency where before when I suggested a bigger panel your stance was that the little extra efficiency of a 600V system over say a 300V one justifies the far greater expensive of compatible equipment and special wiring. It's not just a bigger panel brightspark but also more storage in the form of much more expensive batteries.

Are you going to stay consistent or continue to flip-flop between ideas like a fish out of water?

Again Iseed have working system. What can you show us? Fckall. Again you lie as the reason for the 600V was to save on copper cost feeding the inverter over the distance. It's only a 600V line from the Solar panels to the Inverter thus the system remains 220VAC so I am not sure about the BS you are spinning again about incompatible equipment? So there goes you icorrect ass_sumption again. The size of the panel have little to do with more storage. Again you make up BS to look clever. The storage depends on your required usage or load when there is no sun and the size of the panel is determined by how much energy you want or need to harvest for storage and use in the limited sun cycle.

I take note now that your efficiency argument is debunked you try hard to spin more BS around the issue. Carry on we enjoy your foolishness.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Just to be difficult -

Actually, I'm running 380v AC

576V @ 8.63A (36V x 16 @ 8.63A) -> Grid Tied 3 phase 10KW inverter.

Grid Tied Inverter <-> 3 x Multiplus 3000VA inverters <-> Batteries -> Each Phase.

(I like having the headroom in case I want to expand later).

PS L for Lawrence not I.

PPS

Again you lie as the reason for the 600V was to save on copper cost feeding the inverter over the distance.

Higher voltage vs higher current (AMP's) does mean thinner cable, but the inverter specs were the consideration, not the cabling.

Digressing somewhat though. Don't let my solar setup distract

 

[Swa]

More thumb suck BS? Show us this commercial 18V system or must the scientists still develop such an thing. Will your consortium do it? While you are at it show us where it is used in a practical application where it works!

Instead of showing people your ignorance here is some good advice, rather shut up about it.

Seems you cannot read either, only the microcare does not rate euro efficiency.
You will also pay a premium for superconductors and cooling. Your point is? Relatively cheap modified sine wave inverters also have high efficiencies, much higher than your thumbsucked 80%...

I gave you this advice before but apparently you don't want it. Before insulting others you should be the one to read first. Both the Microcare and Omnik rate maximum efficiency. It says so right there in pages you linked to. Cheap inverters don't have the efficiency you claim and nobody said anything about needing superconductors. The figure is not thumbsucked but common knowledge for high loads.

That is a pointless comment. I was showing efficiency.

As is your comment. I was showing that I'm aware of micro-inverters. They don't really make your case.

Actually, it does, well at least to someone who can understand what I wrote and can think.
But anyway, then lets go with 80%, it is still better than your proposed solution - which you also do not seem to grasp.
(0.95*0.8>0.66*0.9)

And you're still unable to grasp that this is your best case scenario under almost no load for which you'll pay a premium.

No, you really do not understand how this works, do you? You cannot feed a PC with poorly regulated 18V.

Regulating down to 12V from 18V can't exceed a loss of 33%. Seems you're the one that doesn't understand how this works.

I am pretty sure anybody that reads this thread - regardless of how much they know - will not be impressed by anything SWA has posted.

Stroking your own e-peen much? You really do have a superiority complex.

 

[Swa]

Again Iseed have working system. What can you show us? Fckall. Again you lie as the reason for the 600V was to save on copper cost feeding the inverter over the distance. It's only a 600V line from the Solar panels to the Inverter thus the system remains 220VAC so I am not sure about the BS you are spinning again about incompatible equipment? So there goes you icorrect ass_sumption again. The size of the panel have little to do with more storage. Again you make up BS to look clever. The storage depends on your required usage or load when there is no sun and the size of the panel is determined by how much energy you want or need to harvest for storage and use in the limited sun cycle.

I take note now that your efficiency argument is debunked you try hard to spin more BS around the issue. Carry on we enjoy your foolishness.

Seems you should also learn to read first before calling people liars. I know the 600V was to feed the inverter and it requires special more expensive cabling over your standard 3.3mm. This also requires 600V compatible equipment. So there goes your incorrect ass_sumptions again. You also don't seem to understand that compensating for your inverter losses isn't just adding a panel but also extra storage.

So there goes another one of your senseless posts shown for what it is.

 

[P924]

Instead of showing people your ignorance here is some good advice, rather shut up about it.

Wow, that is rich!

I gave you this advice before but apparently you don't want it. Before insulting others you should be the one to read first. Both the Microcare and Omnik rate maximum efficiency. It says so right there in pages you linked to. Cheap inverters don't have the efficiency you claim and nobody said anything about needing superconductors. The figure is not thumbsucked but common knowledge for high loads.

Wow, again. You seem to have a comprehension problem. Under the technical tab for the Omnik you get:

Clearly it gives Euro efficiency.
You just make up facts and call them common knowledge? It does not work like that in the real world...
All good inverters for the euro/usa market have graphs like these:

As you can see, from the graph, efficiency is >95% for all loads higher than 20% the rated power. You fail to provide any evidence of this "common knowledge" made up facts of yours.

Aside from that, who would buy a cheap inverter after buying an expensinve solar panel array? Also, unless you forgo the ability to run anything like a vacuum cleaner or kettle in your home completely, you will need to do some additional wiring in your home. An inverter would be a lot cheaper than doing so - wiring a house is quite expensive.

As is your comment. I was showing that I'm aware of micro-inverters. They don't really make your case.

You are aware of them? Good. That just shows that you again fail to comprehend. I was showing that efficiency can be in the order of ~96% for an inverter of 300W, or 3kW, 5kW and higher. That is the reason for the inclusion of the micro inverter, but it went right over your head, didn't it?

And you're still unable to grasp that this is your best case scenario under almost no load for which you'll pay a premium.

No, I deliberately took worse case on my system and best case on yours, and this premium I will pay is in all cases less than the premium that you will pay.

Regulating down to 12V from 18V can't exceed a loss of 33%. Seems you're the one that doesn't understand how this works.

Wow, I really thought you understand this better than that. You need a stable 12V supply for a PC. Then you also need 5V, 3.3V and -12V for ATX compatibility. How do you think you will get a stable supply from a high impedance supply? What happens if your PC is idle and only draws 75W? Now the supply is much higher than 12V. What happens if you upgrade your GPU and the draw is much higher than 350W? Now the voltage is lower than 12V. The only way to compensate for that is a buck-boost converter. Now show us some power supplies to power a PC from a car battery. What is the efficiency? What is the cost? You will find that they are much more expensive than a power supply from AC for comparable power ratings. You can convert 12V to 12V and still have 10% efficiency, due to poor design, but the best case for buck-boost is in the ranges I specified earlier.

Well of course, if you still don't understand and disagree, you are welcome to bring your PC, we rip out the powersupply, get a roll of twin+earth and I will hook it up to an 18V supply and you can wire it to your PC and disprove us all. I will record a video as well for entertainment purposes.

Now, it has been proven that your envisioned system is not feasible - it is neither cheaper, nor more efficient than installing an inverter - supported with provable facts, yet you have not proven a single fact, nor any of your so-called "common knowledge". In fact, every time you tried to prove anything, you just proved your lack of knowledge about power electronics and electronics in general.

 

[Seriously]

Seems you should also learn to read first before calling people liars. I know the 600V was to feed the inverter and it requires special more expensive cabling over your standard 3.3mm. This also requires 600V compatible equipment. So there goes your incorrect ass_sumptions again. You also don't seem to understand that compensating for your inverter losses isn't just adding a panel but also extra storage.

So there goes another one of your senseless posts shown for what it is.

No you dont. I am not going to dig back at repost all the nonsense ass_sumptions you posted after Isheed posted about his system. Been there done that already and everyone could see through your babble and waffle.

Now again Isheed have a working system, now show us in detail what you have and at the same time for the umpteenth time explain us your special science to get 30 Amps @12VDC through a 2.5mm2 domestic home copper wire. At any source of your choosing.

 

[Seriously]

Instead of showing people your ignorance here is some good advice, rather shut up about it.

So it can again be concluded you just thumb sucked BS to look clever as you can show nothing to prove your dreamed up concepts? Thanks for the confirmation yet again that you are out of your depth in this thread from your first right up to your last post!

I just hope your job, if you have one, is not consulting or give people advise on Solar or power systems .................. or rather lets change that to any subject, even the bible and christianity, come to think of it.

 

[Seriously]

Just to be difficult -

Actually, I'm running 380v AC

576V @ 8.63A (36V x 16 @ 8.63A) -> Grid Tied 3 phase 10KW inverter.

Grid Tied Inverter <-> 3 x Multiplus 3000VA inverters <-> Batteries -> Each Phase.

(I like having the headroom in case I want to expand later).

PS L for Lawrence not I.

PPS



Higher voltage vs higher current (AMP's) does mean thinner cable, but the inverter specs were the consideration, not the cabling.

Digressing somewhat though. Don't let my solar setup distract

Cant you stick to simple designs. You are now gong to create havoc with Swa's brain as how is he going to recreate a 3 phase DC system? Ah well, he will dig up something to waffle about.

S

So according to Swa's logic you have 99% inefficiency within your system @ 33% losses*3phases. So you should've rather stuck to a [-]12VDC[/-] now 18VDC system to have zero efficiency losses. Your copper costs would have been much less than the efficiency loss you experience from your FREE solar power.

/S

 

[dhirennaidoo]

Some may find this short book interesting: https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/l9kbbg2q1ki7wj64b31x8serf2insm5d

 

[Seriously]

Some may find this short book interesting: https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/l9kbbg2q1ki7wj64b31x8serf2insm5d

Thanks. Interesting and usable as we see for long distance power transmission but for the home environment not a solution yet for decades to come.

 

[Swa]

Wow, again. You seem to have a comprehension problem. Under the technical tab for the Omnik you get: /snip

Again you make statements that are more a reflection of yourself. You weren't referring to the euro efficiency which is an average but rather the maximum efficiency. I pointed this out and that the minimum efficiency is less than both the maximum and euro.

As you can see, from the graph, efficiency is >95% for all loads higher than 20% the rated power. You fail to provide any evidence of this "common knowledge" made up facts of yours.

And you fail to actually acknowledge what was pointed out by me and others earlier in this thread.

Aside from that, who would buy a cheap inverter after buying an expensinve solar panel array?

Not sure what your standard is here. Inverters are already almost as expensive as the panels for normal loads. Premium inverters even more so it's a big consideration when the point of the exercise is to reduce cost as much as possible.

Also, unless you forgo the ability to run anything like a vacuum cleaner or kettle in your home completely, you will need to do some additional wiring in your home. An inverter would be a lot cheaper than doing so - wiring a house is quite expensive.

Again don't know what you are referring to as there's no need for additional wiring.

You are aware of them? Good. That just shows that you again fail to comprehend. I was showing that efficiency can be in the order of ~96% for an inverter of 300W, or 3kW, 5kW and higher. That is the reason for the inclusion of the micro inverter, but it went right over your head, didn't it?

What's going right over your head is that it doesn't change the cost unless you are going for an el-cheapo in which case you won't get your claimed efficiency. The reason I mentioned I'm aware of them is that they don't change the argument much.

No, I deliberately took worse case on my system and best case on yours, and this premium I will pay is in all cases less than the premium that you will pay.

And the best case doesn't turn out to be so good. If you've been following you'll know that the advantage of an inverter claim is based on an initial statement of 98%+ efficiency. As it turns out that is unsupported and the figure I gave of ~95% is nearer to what you are supporting. So far from your thinking that you're disproving my claims you are actually supporting them.

So what is this premium you think I'll be paying? Skipping the inverter doesn't result in paying a premium but in a saving both in cost and efficiency.

Wow, I really thought you understand this better than that. You need a stable 12V supply for a PC. Then you also need 5V, 3.3V and -12V for ATX compatibility. How do you think you will get a stable supply from a high impedance supply? What happens if your PC is idle and only draws 75W? Now the supply is much higher than 12V. What happens if you upgrade your GPU and the draw is much higher than 350W? Now the voltage is lower than 12V. The only way to compensate for that is a buck-boost converter. Now show us some power supplies to power a PC from a car battery. What is the efficiency? What is the cost? You will find that they are much more expensive than a power supply from AC for comparable power ratings. You can convert 12V to 12V and still have 10% efficiency, due to poor design, but the best case for buck-boost is in the ranges I specified earlier.

Well of course, if you still don't understand and disagree, you are welcome to bring your PC, we rip out the powersupply, get a roll of twin+earth and I will hook it up to an 18V supply and you can wire it to your PC and disprove us all. I will record a video as well for entertainment purposes.

Now, it has been proven that your envisioned system is not feasible - it is neither cheaper, nor more efficient than installing an inverter - supported with provable facts, yet you have not proven a single fact, nor any of your so-called "common knowledge". In fact, every time you tried to prove anything, you just proved your lack of knowledge about power electronics and electronics in general.

It seems you are the one not grasping this. I never said you don't need a stable supply. I said that converting from 18V to a stable 12V supply doesn't result in a loss of more than 33%. You can disagree with that all you want and that I've provided nothing to support it but it's just basic physics. Of course there are other voltages as well but what you're failing to take into account is that you don't get to those voltages or to 12V by just throwing redundant power away.

Your question on adding a higher power GPU is the same nonsensical straw man that Seriously employed. You think you are showing DC as unviable for the situation but you're only showing low voltage DC as unviable for it. Since it was never claimed for high power you are actually just pissing against the wind.

 

[Swa]

So it can again be concluded you just thumb sucked BS to look clever as you can show nothing to prove your dreamed up concepts? Thanks for the confirmation yet again that you are out of your depth in this thread from your first right up to your last post!

I just hope your job, if you have one, is not consulting or give people advise on Solar or power systems .................. or rather lets change that to any subject, even the bible and christianity, come to think of it.

The only thing you have shown here over and over again now it that you are unable to comprehend posts. You can choose to go back to the posts or not, that is your decision. Everybody else however can do so as well and see who is right. Funny how you claim to be the one everybody agrees with while I'm the one getting pm'd for advice.

 

[Swa]

Thanks. Interesting and usable as we see for long distance power transmission but for the home environment not a solution yet for decades to come.

That's high voltage grid transmission. The same as with your link it doesn't say anything about the home environment for which it's completely feasible.