The energy solution for South Africa is DC power.

[P924]

Have you read the rest of the comments in this thread?

I have. However I have also read articles from journals to back what I have said...

 

[Swa]

I have. However I have also read articles from journals to back what I have said...

So have others...

 

[ToxicBunny]

Manufacturers will only ramp up when most houses are equipped with DC. We can expect it to happen within a year or two of such time and 5 years for most appliances like computers, TVs and stereos to be DC equipped. It would therefor be up to people to equip their houses with DC before then, which will be useful for lighting purposes and the coming blackouts will be a perfect opportunity for doing that. The main problem is going to be a standard voltage. Most appliances convert AC to voltages like 6V, 12V, and 24V. 24V (two car batteries) is therefor a good choice to push into the market. The other problem is a new socket so that people don't accidentally connect a DC appliance to an AC socket. Something like the American flat two prong would be ideal but perhaps we can also use a standard cigarette lighter plug.

So basically people must re-wire their entire house, suffer for at least 2 years of having to jury-rig things for this?... doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Unless the ENTIRE world changes to DC most electronics manufacturers will just side step SA as a market entirely since we won't be viable enough to justify our own specific product line.

 

[P924]

So have others...

But not for the points I am arguing. Neither do you for your made up "facts"

 

[P924]

Manufacturers will only ramp up when most houses are equipped with DC. We can expect it to happen within a year or two of such time and 5 years for most appliances like computers, TVs and stereos to be DC equipped. It would therefor be up to people to equip their houses with DC before then, which will be useful for lighting purposes and the coming blackouts will be a perfect opportunity for doing that. The main problem is going to be a standard voltage. Most appliances convert AC to voltages like 6V, 12V, and 24V. 24V (two car batteries) is therefor a good choice to push into the market. The other problem is a new socket so that people don't accidentally connect a DC appliance to an AC socket. Something like the American flat two prong would be ideal but perhaps we can also use a standard cigarette lighter plug.

This is not realistic, nor more economic. As I have said, inverters will become a lot cheaper in the next couple of years.

 

[backstreetboy]

Lol people hating on Edison whilst he saved his mother, sister (plus the other people on the train) and made the first power station. Also how did he knew years later many of our appliances will use DC?

 

[Swa]

So basically people must re-wire their entire house, suffer for at least 2 years of having to jury-rig things for this?... doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Unless the ENTIRE world changes to DC most electronics manufacturers will just side step SA as a market entirely since we won't be viable enough to justify our own specific product line.

No different to anything else. Electricity was there before we had the appliances.

But not for the points I am arguing. Neither do you for your made up "facts"

Yet you haven't provided facts.

 

[Swa]

Lol people hating on Edison whilst he saved his mother, sister and made the first power station. Also how did he knew years later many of our appliances will use DC?

Thing is AC was right for the tech of the time. DC is right for ours.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Thing is AC was right for the tech of the time. DC is right for ours.

Why is DC right for ours?

 

[Lino]

Thing is AC was right for the tech of the time. DC is right for ours.

In what possible way?

 

[backstreetboy]

And lets not forget the inventor of the Electric Light Bulb was not Edison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Swan

One can blame school history books for that. Even pro Edison sites admit he was not the first but he did make the first commercially practical light bulb lasting over 40 hours.

 

[backstreetboy]

Thing is AC was right for the tech of the time. DC is right for ours.

+1 specially with the world being more environmentally friendly and trying to save the planet. With solar, wind and tidal power being DC and also you can combine the alkaline battery and not to mention transmitting DC power will always be cheaper. The true brilliance of Thomas Edison.

 

[Billy]

Lol people hating on Edison whilst he saved his mother, sister (plus the other people on the train) and made the first power station. Also how did he knew years later many of our appliances will use DC?

Well actually No! More US propaganda!

From Wiki:

The world's first power station was designed and built by Lord Armstrong at Cragside, England in 1868. Water from one of the lakes was used to power Siemens dynamos. The electricity supplied power to lights, heating, produced hot water, ran an elevator as well as labor-saving devices and farm buildings.[4][5]

The first public power station was the Edison Electric Light Station, built in London at 57, Holborn Viaduct, which started operation in January 1882. This was a project of Thomas Edison that was organized and managed by his partner, Edward Johnson. A Babcock and Wilcox boiler powered a 125 horsepower steam engine that drove a 27 ton generator called Jumbo, after the celebrated elephant. This supplied electricity to premises in the area that could be reached through the culverts of the viaduct without digging up the road, which was the monopoly of the gas companies. The customers included the City Temple and the Old Bailey. Another important customer was the Telegraph Office of the General Post Office, but this could not be reached though the culverts. Johnson arranged for the supply cable to be run overhead, via Holborn Tavern and Newgate.[6]

In September 1882 in New York, the Pearl Street Station was established by Edison to provide electric lighting in the lower Manhattan Island area. The station ran until destroyed by fire in 1890. The station used reciprocating steam engines to turn direct-current generators. Because of the DC distribution, the service area was small, limited by voltage drop in the feeders. The War of Currents eventually resolved in favor of AC distribution and utilization, although some DC systems persisted to the end of the 20th century. DC systems with a service radius of a mile (kilometer) or so were necessarily smaller, less efficient of fuel consumption, and more labor-intensive to operate than much larger central AC generating stations.

 

[Mars]

Thomas Edison lost the race against AC power back then. Today we would have had a completely different world of power if we had things like solar panels and led lights in those days. All our electronic appliances today are DC they are actually converted into AC. Many of our household appliances will work straight of DC. Converting to a solar DC powered house is a far cheaper option, as everything is already DC like the solar panels, batteries, led lights, laptops, mobile phones and many others. Things like kettles, toasters and other heating kitchen appliances will work directly of DC. Most of your household appliances use brushed motors that will also run straight of DC. Here in sunny South Africa every house can generate its own free power from its roof. Converting the DC power into high voltage AC is not the answer the power losses is too high. The problem today is that no one is making DC household appliances, the other problem is getting everyone to standardize on a voltage. I think 110V should be the standard as it’s already a voltage used, it’s also cheaper to go for a lower voltage because of battery and solar panels costs. I made special 24v led globes for my house that runs of solar panels and batteries using my existing house lights, wiring and switches. I contacted Eskom some time back about my lighting system and their response was DC is not their power and was not interested in my proposal of using it in low cost housing. If we just convert every houses light’s to solar then we will take a big load of the grid and no one will ever be without lights again.
See the end of AC and the beginning of DC for households power http://theenergycollective.com/steve...ering-dc-power

What are you smoking?
Have you ever experienced DC mains supply?
Why not suggest we go back to gas lighting!

One of my happiest days as a youngster was when the Electricity Board delivered the replacement motors for our fans, fridges and most importantly a new controller for my electric train, when they converted our supply from DC to AC. Previously I had a very inefficient regulator to convert 240V DC to 12V DC, the new Triang controller was a joy.


And lets not forget the inventor of the Electric Light Bulb was not Edison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Swan

Besides that, it was Tesla that supported DC. Edison is to blame/credit for the wide implementation of AC.

 

[km2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current#Advantages_of_HVDC_over_AC_transmission


from the article

"HVDC is more economical than AC transmission for transmitting large amounts of power over long distances. High power HVDC transmission scheme generally has lower capital costs and lower losses than AC transmission at long distances.HVDC conversion equipment at the terminal stations is costly but the transmission line costs over long distances are lower. HVDC requires less conductor per unit distance than an AC line, as there is no need to support three phases and there is no skin effect."

Wonderful for a specific long distance transmission niche. Some big caveats though, the endpoints make up a massive proportion of the cost (unlike with transformers) so not really viable for shorter distance (i.e. less than the size of South Africa). You can't really tap power off along the way so can't really use it as a grid replacement. Also the 98% uptime is horrendous compared to traditional transformers.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Besides that, it was Tesla that supported DC. Edison is to blame/credit for the wide implementation of AC.

Ummm, no.

 

[backstreetboy]

Well actually No! More US propaganda!

From Wiki:

The world's first power station was designed and built by Lord Armstrong at Cragside, England in 1868. Water from one of the lakes was used to power Siemens dynamos. The electricity supplied power to lights, heating, produced hot water, ran an elevator as well as labor-saving devices and farm buildings.[4][5]

The first public power station was the Edison Electric Light Station, built in London at 57, Holborn Viaduct, which started operation in January 1882. This was a project of Thomas Edison that was organized and managed by his partner, Edward Johnson. A Babcock and Wilcox boiler powered a 125 horsepower steam engine that drove a 27 ton generator called Jumbo, after the celebrated elephant. This supplied electricity to premises in the area that could be reached through the culverts of the viaduct without digging up the road, which was the monopoly of the gas companies. The customers included the City Temple and the Old Bailey. Another important customer was the Telegraph Office of the General Post Office, but this could not be reached though the culverts. Johnson arranged for the supply cable to be run overhead, via Holborn Tavern and Newgate.[6]

In September 1882 in New York, the Pearl Street Station was established by Edison to provide electric lighting in the lower Manhattan Island area. The station ran until destroyed by fire in 1890. The station used reciprocating steam engines to turn direct-current generators. Because of the DC distribution, the service area was small, limited by voltage drop in the feeders. The War of Currents eventually resolved in favor of AC distribution and utilization, although some DC systems persisted to the end of the 20th century. DC systems with a service radius of a mile (kilometer) or so were necessarily smaller, less efficient of fuel consumption, and more labor-intensive to operate than much larger central AC generating stations.

True I probably misworded that. Though he did create the first commercial power plant...

1882-1883 Designed and contracted for the first three-wire central station for distributing electric light, power, and heat - in standardized form - in Brockton, Massachusetts. By October, had completed construction of that station. Discovered a previously unknown phenomenon that later came to be known as the "Edison effect," but he called "Etheric Force." Specifically, determined that an independent wire, grid, or plate placed between the legs of the filament of an incandescent lamp acted as a "damper" or valve to control the flow of current. The associated Patent No. 307,031 was issued to him later that year. Twelve years later these previously unknown phenomena were recognized as electric waves in free space and became the foundation of wireless telegraphy. Most significantly, this discovery - along with his carbon button - involved the foundation principles upon which the diode was later invented, and upon which radio, television, and computer transistors are based.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

AC = good for long distance power transmission, and power guzzlers like kettles, hot water urns, geysers etc.

DC = good for low-power units, like lights and some household appliances like radios...

Besides DC is used in torches, small radios and cellphones anyway.

Trying to convert a kettle (to boil water with) to DC will be an excercise in futility anyway. Unless you can come up with a brilliant design that will allow you to boil water within 5 minutes from a standard 12v car battery....

 

[Lino]

Du trotte1 honestly DC is not the way unless you will be buying me new equipment and rewiring my flat for me?

 

[The_Unbeliever]

I herewith challenge all DC fanatics to heat up and boil water within 5 minutes with a standard kettle with DC power.

Rules :

1. Any kettle can be used, as long as it can be filled up with 1.2l of water
2. The experiment must be run consistently, and more than 3 or 4 times in succession, and with cold water at each new start.
3. A youtube video clip will not be accepted as evidence - we can arrange for two (or more forumites) to be present during said experimentation to verify that all cabling is standard cabling, and that the power is indeed DC power (anything from 12v up to 96VDC)
4. Only standard cabling can be used.
5. No inverters allowed.

So, get cracking. Getting a kettle to boil will be the first step. The next step will be to get a vacuum cleaner to operate on DC without any modifications.