The fight over co.za prices

system32

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
3,595
R80 x 1,143,384 .co.za domains = R91.4m to run a website and 2 bind VM's

Sounds like a scam.

Update:
https://www.zadna.org.za shows 1,264,123 domains

https://www.registry.net.za/domain_stats.php shows 1,143,384

"The .za Domain Name Authority (.ZADNA) is a not-for-profit company that administrates the .za namespace."

IMHO, R91.4m is for profit.

When you have a few domains to pay for, it adds up.
 
Last edited:

WalkWithMe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
270
R80 x 1,143,384 .co.za domains = R91.4m to run a website and 2 bind VM's

Sounds like a scam.

Update:
https://www.zadna.org.za shows 1,264,123 domains

https://www.registry.net.za/domain_stats.php shows 1,143,384

"The .za Domain Name Authority (.ZADNA) is a not-for-profit company that administrates the .za namespace."

IMHO, R91.4m is for profit.

When you have a few domains to pay for, it adds up.
Not all domains are for a website and a VM binding!
Do you know what it takes to run a registrar?
They switched from legacy system to a fully integrated registrar system and protocol that other registrats use. This also involced developing a back end system to handle it. There is also other costs to ICANN etc which is in forex. Then there is costs to host the system with redundancy, protect against DOS, firewalls and hardware. Costs to partake in international forums...
I have gotten to the cost of staff, offices, salaries, support systems. Domain resolution committees, lawyers.
All for R45/domain which more like R50mil/year/turnover which around R4mil/month. I say well done to them to do that in within that price and if the government over sight body wants R12 of that R45 or just over R1mil/month, that can break the bank!
And R80/month is the ISP cost to people not ZACR sell price remove the R10 VAT which leaves R70
How the hell is this for profit???
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
27,416
R80 x 1,143,384 .co.za domains = R91.4m to run a website and 2 bind VM's

Sounds like a scam.

Update:
https://www.zadna.org.za shows 1,264,123 domains

https://www.registry.net.za/domain_stats.php shows 1,143,384

"The .za Domain Name Authority (.ZADNA) is a not-for-profit company that administrates the .za namespace."

IMHO, R91.4m is for profit.

When you have a few domains to pay for, it adds up.
Not for profit doesn't mean they're not allowed to post a profit.
Not for profit describes a type of organization that does not earn profits for its owners. All of the money earned by or donated to a not-for-profit organization is used in pursuing the organization's objectives and keeping it running.
Financials: https://nationalgovernment.co.za/units/financial/394/domain-name-authority-zadna
2015/16 is the newest posted.

Near 6 million operating costs, which is a bit crazy. They do post a profit of over R1.8 million. Considering that's 20% of revenue, that's a bit crazy for a non-profit. They have an equity balance of R10.5 million, more than an entire years revenue...

EDIT:
Page 41:
~1 034 00 domains in 2016
 
Last edited:

Bryn

Doubleplusgood
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
15,637
Not all domains are for a website and a VM binding!
Do you know what it takes to run a registrar?
They switched from legacy system to a fully integrated registrar system and protocol that other registrats use. This also involced developing a back end system to handle it. There is also other costs to ICANN etc which is in forex. Then there is costs to host the system with redundancy, protect against DOS, firewalls and hardware. Costs to partake in international forums...
I have gotten to the cost of staff, offices, salaries, support systems. Domain resolution committees, lawyers.
All for R45/domain which more like R50mil/year/turnover which around R4mil/month. I say well done to them to do that in within that price and if the government over sight body wants R12 of that R45 or just over R1mil/month, that can break the bank!
And R80/month is the ISP cost to people not ZACR sell price remove the R10 VAT which leaves R70
How the hell is this for profit???
Imo, domain registration and renewal prices should be massively increased. At least for valuable commercial TLD's like .com and .co.za. No business is likely to give a damn about a $100 annual fee, but it would destroy the profitability for companies that hoard domains for resale and reduce the number of people sitting on domains that they aren't using.

What a huge difference that small act could make to the internet.
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
27,416
Imo, domain registration and renewal prices should be massively increased. At least for valuable commercial TLD's like .com and .co.za. No business is likely to give a damn about a $100 annual fee, but it would destroy the profitability for companies that hoard domains for resale and reduce the number of people sitting on domains that they aren't using.

What a huge difference that small act could make to the internet.
For small or micro businesses, that's actually quite a bit.
 

Bryn

Doubleplusgood
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
15,637
For small or micro businesses, that's actually quite a bit.
If $100 a year is too much for any business, they've got bigger problems than the domain they're using. Life has pros and cons to everything, and the pros of hefty .com fees massively, vastly outweigh the cons imo. High fees would free up millions of premium domains currently being squatted on.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
25,308
Imo, domain registration and renewal prices should be massively increased. At least for valuable commercial TLD's like .com and .co.za. No business is likely to give a damn about a $100 annual fee, but it would destroy the profitability for companies that hoard domains for resale and reduce the number of people sitting on domains that they aren't using.

What a huge difference that small act could make to the internet.
I'm sitting on domains not currently in use in order to prevent people squatting on them. It's also not just businesses but most domains are personal, and why price it in Dollars to begin with?

They should rather be taking care of the squatting problem on a root level.
 

Bryn

Doubleplusgood
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
15,637
I'm sitting on domains not currently in use in order to prevent people squatting on them. It's also not just businesses but most domains are personal, and why price it in Dollars to begin with?

They should rather be taking care of the squatting problem on a root level.
Why squat on domains then at all if you aren't using them?

I don't see what other approaches could work. Any rules relating to active use will just result in landing page templates being standard. Any rules against domains being used as inventory will probably fail after lengthy court battles. I don't see what legal basis, particularly when applied internationally, could be used to support an argument that domains can be repossessed due to inappropriate use. And of course it begs the question as to whom gets to assume ownership next.

Significantly higher registration and renewal fees is possibly the only solution to cybersquatting, and surely the simplest by a million miles.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
25,308
Why squat on domains then at all if you aren't using them?

I don't see what other approaches could work. Any rules relating to active use will just result in landing page templates being standard. Any rules against domains being used as inventory will probably fail after lengthy court battles. I don't see what legal basis, particularly when applied internationally, could be used to support an argument that domains can be repossessed due to inappropriate use. And of course it begs the question as to whom gets to assume ownership next.

Significantly higher registration and renewal fees is possibly the only solution to cybersquatting, and surely the simplest by a million miles.
These are domains which have been squatted on previously and that I have used as well. I'm not currently using the ones that are left but I'm not going to let them go just so that some squatter watching for deletions can pick them up. Some I've deleted as they're no longer relevant to my life and never will be again. Besides they aren't relevant to anybody but me.

If they wanted to do something about squatting they could. It's not hard to identify people that are reported as having thousands of domains but not using any of them and only selling them especially if you've allowed them to be registrars. There could be better processes in place but alas money is more important than users. They could even make it exclusive to SA entities as some other countries have done.

Raising prices isn't the answer.
 
Last edited:

Bryn

Doubleplusgood
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
15,637
These are domains which have been squatted on previously and that I have used as well. I'm not currently using the ones that are left but I'm not going to let them go just so that some squatter watching for deletions can pick them up. Some I've deleted as they're no longer relevant to my life and never will be again. Besides they aren't relevant to anybody but me.

If they wanted to do something about squatting they could. It's not hard to identify people that are reported as having thousands of domains but not using any of them and only selling them especially if you've allowed them to be registrars. There could be better processes in place but alas money is more important than users. They could even make it exclusive to SA entities as some other countries have done.

Raising prices isn't the answer.
I think you underestimate the legal challenges that would result if Verisign/ICANN suddenly announced that the definition of cybersquatting was being broadened to encompass all domain pests and that anyone could apply to own a squatted domain. It's easy to say that domain squatters should be dealt with from an ethical perspective, but what is the legal perspective?

That's why I say that the only avenue I can imagine that doesn't involve a massive legal s**t storm that probably won't go the way of ICANN is a simple price increase. Perhaps not $100, but high enough that keeping domains as inventory or arbitrarily squatting on them is prohibitively expensive.

What alternative do you envisage?
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
25,308
I think you underestimate the legal challenges that would result if Verisign/ICANN suddenly announced that the definition of cybersquatting was being broadened to encompass all domain pests and that anyone could apply to own a squatted domain. It's easy to say that domain squatters should be dealt with from an ethical perspective, but what is the legal perspective?

That's why I say that the only avenue I can imagine that doesn't involve a massive legal s**t storm that probably won't go the way of ICANN is a simple price increase. Perhaps not $100, but high enough that keeping domains as inventory or arbitrarily squatting on them is prohibitively expensive.

What alternative do you envisage?
I don't buy it. Under the current terms someone who has hundreds of domains they've never used but only sell on already fall under the squatter category. A landing page isn't a measure for use one way or the other.

A price increase will affect everyone and not just companies. The majority of domains are private or small operations so there's no way to raise it enough to stop squatting while still making it affordable for individuals.

Legal means is the only realistic way but with a flawed process of having to pay R20k (last time I checked) per domain instead of taking on individuals it isn't realistic. There needs to be a change in the process to look at individuals and not domains.
 

Bryn

Doubleplusgood
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
15,637
I don't buy it. Under the current terms someone who has hundreds of domains they've never used but only sell on already fall under the squatter category. A landing page isn't a measure for use one way or the other.

A price increase will affect everyone and not just companies. The majority of domains are private or small operations so there's no way to raise it enough to stop squatting while still making it affordable for individuals.

Legal means is the only realistic way but with a flawed process of having to pay R20k (last time I checked) per domain instead of taking on individuals it isn't realistic. There needs to be a change in the process to look at individuals and not domains.
Cybersquatting currently only covers squatting on trademarked names last I checked.

Again, I think you're underestimating the scale of the legal fallout that would result from what you're suggesting. Most people agree that trading domain names for a business makes you a colossal a***ole, but why would a court care about that?
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
25,308
Cybersquatting currently only covers squatting on trademarked names last I checked.

Again, I think you're underestimating the scale of the legal fallout that would result from what you're suggesting. Most people agree that trading domain names for a business makes you a colossal a***ole, but why would a court care about that?
No it also covers buying domains not for the purpose of actually using them. So not sure where you're getting that there would be a legal fallout if we start enforcing the rules.

The problem is that there's only a process for single domains and not for taking on a squatter in general because they simply don't care as it's income for them but at the public's expense.
 
Top