The impasse of the strike

rwenzori

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Well he makes a lot of sense in what he says about politicians taking the same 6.5% increase instead of fat wodges of increase, but this is off the mark:

Union leaders must crack down very hard on unruly elements.
The union leaders either ARE or encourage the "unruly elements".

Example of intimidatory union leader:

It was reported that a group of about six or seven Sadtu members, headed by M.L. Sultan Secondary principal and chairman of the local Sadtu branch Willie Naidoo, were storming into schools and threatening staff who reported for duty.
 
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CeeBee

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quite :sick: :eek: to think that these hooligans & barbarians are the same people entrusted with our lives as patients, and our kids as teachers :mad:
are they just very good at separating business from personal life?
I suppose we as tax payers, and caugher-uppers for the services, should also think about whether we want such kind of people working 'for us' in the department?
Maybe harsh to say, but at some or other stage they will have to either, 1. start to accept that there is not much more munny available for a huge increase (only so much budgeted for) and be grateful that they, being the kind hooligans they are, have at least got a job, or 2. "Vat jou goed en f*-off" and try find a better job :(
I know there are lots of good, responsible & willing to work, folks too, they can stay.
After all, I doubt if anywhere else in the world, is public service salaries anywhere near the same level as in private sector, but come-on, neither is the workload and responsibility either
 

IamCanadian

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There are only a few unruly elements.

The strike should continue. It is a disgrace what, cops, teachers and nurses are being paid in SA these days.

It's OK for the ANC guavament officials to jack up their own salaries, but not OK for a miserly 12% increase in the workers pay cheques!
 

Moederloos

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It's OK for the ANC guavament officials to jack up their own salaries, but not OK for a miserly 12% increase in the workers pay cheques!
Again, there's the point.

What would COSATU do if Mbeki came to the front and said: "Ok, I, and all my deputies, will take 6.5% - you guys get 7.5%" ?
 

nivek

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fire them all!!! and then give 12% increases to those that are left and didnt strike :)
 

icyrus

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There are only a few unruly elements.

The strike should continue. It is a disgrace what, cops, teachers and nurses are being paid in SA these days.

It's OK for the ANC guavament officials to jack up their own salaries, but not OK for a miserly 12% increase in the workers pay cheques!
Their salaries are substandard, but everyone wants more money. I don't see striking as productive way of resolving the situation.

Personally I wouldn't want to have any dealings with a person who feels this is a good solution to their problem.
 

werries2

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Their salaries are substandard, but everyone wants more money. I don't see striking as productive way of resolving the situation.

Personally I wouldn't want to have any dealings with a person who feels this is a good solution to their problem.
Poor salaries, and by poor these are extremely bad. The cherry on this cake is that the ministers (the ones in charge) can take a 30% increase without raising an eyebrow. If it were not for the strike there would not even have been the mention of a 6.5% increase, the more money from the budget would simply disappear in the pockets of the people in "charge" ? Housing subsidy of R250 currently so teachers and nurses and police have to rent a house for that :D but wait we get a boost to R550 WOW! can move to a new neighbourhood!

So what other solutions are there?
Strike? at least sees some increase in wages, it is a system that works in this country, how pathetic it might be.
Negotiations? these were held regularly for the last few years and have mostly seen increase in salaries and the reduction of benefits like healthcare and pension. People tend to get tired of talk and talk and no action...
 

Vrotappel

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but come-on, neither is the workload and responsibility either
Go write crap somewhere else. Obviously you don't have any idea what the public service does. Before you complain about the workers complain about the management, starting with Mbeki himself.
 

Vrotappel

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Again, there's the point.

What would COSATU do if Mbeki came to the front and said: "Ok, I, and all my deputies, will take 6.5% - you guys get 7.5%" ?
Not really acceptable, the wage gap will still increase. In your scenario the wage gap between a person earning R120 000 and a person earning R600 000 per annum will increase by R30 000.

Mbeki and Co. should take 0%.
 

IamCanadian

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Their salaries are substandard, but everyone wants more money. I don't see striking as productive way of resolving the situation.

Personally I wouldn't want to have any dealings with a person who feels this is a good solution to their problem.
You even said it: "Their salaries are substandard".

I am sure that if you were in their position, you would also be out on strike. What other choice do these people have. Think about it, they are teachers, and nurses. They teach the little snot noses of the country and help to care for the sick. This is backbone of the country stuff.

Again it's a bloody disgrace to get paid what they do!

It's even more disgraceful for people to be saying fire them all. These are human beings with families. Sname on you people for saying so!


The ANC is the problem!
 

Gr8time

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You even said it: "Their salaries are substandard".
And so is their work ethics. Why is the medical facilities in such a poor state - not because less money or less staff. There more money wasted and more staff doing stuff-all.

I am sure that if you were in their position, you would also be out on strike. What other choice do these people have. Think about it, they are teachers, and nurses. They teach the little snot noses of the country and help to care for the sick. This is backbone of the country stuff.
Like me, they should find another better paying job, but in their case they'd shy away from that because the better paying job may require them to actually WORK.

Again it's a bloody disgrace to get paid what they do!
And it's a disgrace that they expect more for doing so little.

It's even more disgraceful for people to be saying fire them all. These are human beings with families. Sname on you people for saying so!


The ANC is the problem!
 

IamCanadian

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Like me, they should find another better paying job, but in their case they'd shy away from that because the better paying job may require them to actually WORK.
That's just great. So by your logic every nurse and teacher should find a better paying job. So who then is going to teach and care for South Africans if everyone is working in other jobs?
 

Gr8time

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That's just great. So by your logic every nurse and teacher should find a better paying job. So who then is going to teach and care for South Africans if everyone is working in other jobs?
Those that are worth their oats will find other jobs, which is happening right now.

The qualified hard working nursing staff can be found abroad, the majority of them being coloured.
I've met a few on my travels to the UK.

Who is going to care for and teach South Africans - that's a different problem that needs a different remedy.
Why note start with work ethics and payment based on performance.

I was pleased to note that a private group is tasked with shaking up Home Affairs - obviously to sort that mess out, you'd need to fire a good few from top to bottom, but that will obviously meet with considerable resistance.
 

IamCanadian

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Those that are worth their oats will find other jobs, which is happening right now.

The qualified hard working nursing staff can be found abroad, the majority of them being coloured.
I've met a few on my travels to the UK.

Who is going to care for and teach South Africans - that's a different problem that needs a different remedy.
Why note start with work ethics and payment based on performance.

I was pleased to note that a private group is tasked with shaking up Home Affairs - obviously to sort that mess out, you'd need to fire a good few from top to bottom, but that will obviously meet with considerable resistance.
SA will never attract nurses or teachers because of the pitiful salaries they pay. My brothers wife was a nurse in SA and she is now nurse in Canada. She is well paid and highly respected as are other teachers and nurses in Canada are.

Pay these positions properly and then perhaps things will begin to mend. Failing that, you should expect a futher decline in SA living standards.
 

Gr8time

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SA will never attract nurses or teachers because of the pitiful salaries they pay. My brothers wife was a nurse in SA and she is now nurse in Canada. She is well paid and highly respected as are other teachers and nurses in Canada are.

Pay these positions properly and then perhaps things will begin to mend. Failing that, you should expect a futher decline in SA living standards.

It's no as simple as just paying them more - how do you propose getting them to actually work for this pay increase.
 

IamCanadian

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It's no as simple as just paying them more - how do you propose getting them to actually work for this pay increase.

Here's a great axiom: "You get what you paid for."

If you pay crap, you get crap. I see this all the time in my part of the world. We no longer settle for crap. If it costs a little more, then in the long run, we are better off.

If these positions were given the respect they deserve, and they get paid above average, then you will get top people to do the job. It's obvious.

It seems as if the ANC has no respect for workers these days. I think the ANC has lost it and you will begin to witness a change in the political landscape where SA moves even further to the left on the political spectrum.
 

Moederloos

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Here's a great axiom: "You get what you paid for."

If you pay crap, you get crap. I see this all the time in my part of the world. We no longer settle for crap. If it costs a little more, then in the long run, we are better off.

If these positions were given the respect they deserve, and they get paid above average, then you will get top people to do the job. It's obvious.

It seems as if the ANC has no respect for workers these days. I think the ANC has lost it and you will begin to witness a change in the political landscape where SA moves even further to the left on the political spectrum.
Well put - and a point that some people here are missing.
By increasing the pay you will attract a better calibre of person - sure, in the short term some of the bottom feeders will score too, but so be it.

The whole "if you want more money find another job" argument is madness. How about "if you want a decent public servant, pay better than private" ?

Is a world class, unbeatable public service sector not what we want?
And do we really expect to get that at "squatter camp" rates?
 
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