Sign up with GoogleThe last thing they need is "breathing room".
http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rc...1ZHgAQ&usg=AFQjCNFm-0O_8EJ84zVHXAHhljPa3K9C8g
They need to be held accountable.
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The Johan Booysen / Cato Manor Cops Thread
- Thread starter MickeyD
- Start date
The last thing they need is "breathing room".
http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rc...1ZHgAQ&usg=AFQjCNFm-0O_8EJ84zVHXAHhljPa3K9C8g
They need to be held accountable.
Nicodeamus
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I don't trust the police to protect me any more than I trust the criminal to not shoot. There have been so many cases of the police acting as a mob and just shooting criminals blindly.
DreamKing
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bubbatentoe
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People are so quick to judge.
Where would we be (crime-wise) if there were no organized crime units?
& what do you do with a "suspect" that pulls a gun or something that looks like a gun after BEING TOLD to "lie down" or "don't move"?
My thanks to the guys/gals in the organized crime units.
So what if they celebrate?
I would too if I was still alive + none of my mates died after a shoot-out.
Where would we be (crime-wise) if there were no organized crime units?
& what do you do with a "suspect" that pulls a gun or something that looks like a gun after BEING TOLD to "lie down" or "don't move"?
My thanks to the guys/gals in the organized crime units.
So what if they celebrate?
I would too if I was still alive + none of my mates died after a shoot-out.
The article is hysterical.
The unit is celebrating as police do after a stressful week.
Of course the police are hypocrites and would frown upon civilians posing with guns like that. They may even arrest them.
If an ordinary citizen is not even allowed to draw a weapon unless an attack has begun and their life is in danger, then why can the police shoot someone trying to get away?
I'd rather have police kill suspects and criminals than have criminals kill law abiding citizens. I'd rather have the police kill a suspect who's unemployed and of little use to society than have a criminal kill someone who works, has his/her own business, employs people, pays tax and contributes positively to society.
With that said, I support vigilantism in its entirety in townships. If a crime is committed to someone who stays in a rural area or township then that person can forget about getting justice. All the cops do there is make you write a statement and then it's history.
Have you ever been a victim of crime? Do you know someone who's been a victim of crime?
In theory, I don't support vigilantism and shooting to kill of suspects and criminals. But we live in a world where people are not doing what they are paid to do. Cops are not doing what we as tax payers pay them to do, some cops are corrupt and some are lazy and incompetent.
'm well aware of the dangers of vigilantism and the shoot to kill practice, fact is that criminals must be afraid of us, they must be afraid of the cops. Unfortunately cops are afraid of criminals on a number of instances.
Good lord LOL. Wow...Just...Wow. Don't know what sort of law of the jungle society you have going on here but it scares the living daylights out of me.
F
Fudzy
Guest
Obligatory question... Do you live in South Africa? If stats are to be believed we are one of the most violent countries. Yes, you're going to have bad apples. Yes, you're going to have corrupt police working for both the criminals and politicians but in relation to the stats they're quite representative to global trends. And if those are true then at least they're on the decline.
Police legitimacy plays a huge role in preventing crime as well. Behavior like this contributes to the crime problem. Make no mistake, the ones being exterminated are replaced by 12 others at any given time. What you boys are proposing is thoroughly archaic, damaging and an attempted "quick fix" at attempting to fix disturbingly worrying problems, our judicial system being incapable of putting thugs behind bars and a government who don't understand how to tackle crime at a socio economic level.
Another Zuma Inc. Branch?
FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE UNABLE TO OPEN THE LINK TO THE CITIZEN NEWS PAPER, HER IS THE STORY:
Bribe to smear Hawks boss
PROMISED R100 000 if he copied crime-scene photographs from the Cato Manor offices of the Durban Organised Crime Unit, an IT expert at the State Information Technology Agency (Sita) was eventually given only R4 000 for his alleged efforts to help derail a R60 million fraud investigation.
23 March 2012 | PAUL KIRK
PROMISED R100 000 if he copied crime-scene photographs from the Cato Manor offices of the Durban Organised Crime Unit, an IT expert at the State Information Technology Agency (Sita) was eventually given only R4 000 for his alleged efforts to help derail a R60 million fraud investigation.
Vijendran Subramunier allegedly confessed to police that he copied the images and gave them to a senior policeman who handed them to his friend, Colonel Navin Madhoe.
The images were then used to smear head of the Hawks in KwaZulu-Natal, Johan Booysen, and his men as running a hit-squad which murdered crime suspects.
The pair claimed the leaked photos showed suspects murdered by Booysen’s men.
But most of the pictures allegedly leaked by Madhoe show crime scenes that Cato Manor cops were investigating – and not suspects shot dead by Cato Manor cops.
Madhoe, who is a purchasing clerk and not an investigator, has claimed in court that he was investigating Booysen and his men for running an alleged hit-squad that murdered crime suspects.
Madhoe has claimed that his arrest by Booysen was an attempt to derail his investigation into alleged hit- squads.
Subramunier allegedly admitted that he gained access to a police computer and illegally copied images from this computer.
The admission was made to a team of investigators under Major-General Jan Mabula, who have been tasked with probing allegations that Booysen’s detectives were trigger-happy.
A source close to the investigation said: “This is serious. The images were not copied in order to gain evidence of crime, they were stolen off an official computer in order for someone to sell them.”
Subramunier allegedly admitted that he copied the discs after being promised R100 000 to do so. However in his statement to investigators Subramunier allegedly claimed that despite the promise he was only ever given R4 000 for his efforts.
This week Subramunier was still working at Sita and working on police computers at the KZN police headquarters.
When The Citizen first contacted Subramunier he denied having copied the images or having confessed to being bribed to do so. “You cannot prove a thing, if you even write that you will be in so much s..t you cannot realise it.
“I will sue you. I don’t know any of the people you are talking about.” Subramunier initially denied knowing the policemen accused of corruption, then later admitted that: “Ja, so they are friends of mine. So what? I’ll have my attorney go after you and then you’ll be crying.”
Later the same day, after being confronted with the information that The Citizen had gathered, Subramunier promised to be interviewed, then reneged and threatened this reporter.
Among the information that The Citizen had gathered was the fact that Subramunier had a history of bad debt but still lives in an upmarket home on the KZN North Coast.
The Citizen also established that Subramunier had worked on the computers where the “death squad” photographs had been stolen from.
The Citizen has also spoken to several police officers from the Cato Manor unit who indicated that Subramunier had repeatedly asked to be registered as a police informer – promising he would be able to supply information on government corruption by accessing government computers during his working hours and copying information from them.
However, after promising to be interviewed on Wednesday, Subramunier changed his tune, saying: “I have given a statement to the Hawks who are shortly going to arrest and jail people. It is illegal for you to contact me. I copied the images because I was getting proof that those people are a lot of drunks and useless… corrupt.
“What I told the Hawks is secret and confidential and under investigation. If you write anything about this you are going to make powerful enemies and probably go to jail. You will be in court forever, you will lose everything. You have no idea how powerful these ous are. These ous are moving with Edward Zuma.”Edward Zuma is the son of President Jacob Zuma.
Repeated attempts to contact Edward Zuma yesterday proved fruitless. A person identifying himself as “Zuma’s business partner” answered Zuma’s phone. Refusing to identify himself, the man denied that Zuma was a business partner of Thoshan Panday’s, but did say: “All that Edward did was to ask for the police to release some money that was owed to Panday and which had been frozen by Booysen. It wasn’t any business deal, Panday owed some money and Edward agreed to help him out.”
Phone calls and SMS messages to Zuma were not answered.
1Unlike · · Share.
You and 13 others like this..
Deon Rudolph The house of "cards"!
2 hours ago · Like · 4.
Samantha van Rooyen ... (
) ....
2 hours ago · Like.
Samantha van Rooyen "....Humpty dumpty had a great fall..."
2 hours ago · Like · 2.
Belinda Van Eck KARMA!!!
2 hours ago · Like · 1.
Duncan Mansfield Tip of the ice berg
2 hours ago · Like.
Leonie Ludwick If the president of a country can walk freely with possible charges of corruption hanging over his head etc..... We will just become another african country where u will not know whom to trust ... It is a scary world out there, all we can do is pray to God for guidance.
about an hour ago · Like.
Samantha van Rooyen They can't take care of helpless endangered wildlife, on the verge of extinction, what hope does the human population have?
32 minutes ago · Like
FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE UNABLE TO OPEN THE LINK TO THE CITIZEN NEWS PAPER, HER IS THE STORY:
Bribe to smear Hawks boss
PROMISED R100 000 if he copied crime-scene photographs from the Cato Manor offices of the Durban Organised Crime Unit, an IT expert at the State Information Technology Agency (Sita) was eventually given only R4 000 for his alleged efforts to help derail a R60 million fraud investigation.
23 March 2012 | PAUL KIRK
PROMISED R100 000 if he copied crime-scene photographs from the Cato Manor offices of the Durban Organised Crime Unit, an IT expert at the State Information Technology Agency (Sita) was eventually given only R4 000 for his alleged efforts to help derail a R60 million fraud investigation.
Vijendran Subramunier allegedly confessed to police that he copied the images and gave them to a senior policeman who handed them to his friend, Colonel Navin Madhoe.
The images were then used to smear head of the Hawks in KwaZulu-Natal, Johan Booysen, and his men as running a hit-squad which murdered crime suspects.
The pair claimed the leaked photos showed suspects murdered by Booysen’s men.
But most of the pictures allegedly leaked by Madhoe show crime scenes that Cato Manor cops were investigating – and not suspects shot dead by Cato Manor cops.
Madhoe, who is a purchasing clerk and not an investigator, has claimed in court that he was investigating Booysen and his men for running an alleged hit-squad that murdered crime suspects.
Madhoe has claimed that his arrest by Booysen was an attempt to derail his investigation into alleged hit- squads.
Subramunier allegedly admitted that he gained access to a police computer and illegally copied images from this computer.
The admission was made to a team of investigators under Major-General Jan Mabula, who have been tasked with probing allegations that Booysen’s detectives were trigger-happy.
A source close to the investigation said: “This is serious. The images were not copied in order to gain evidence of crime, they were stolen off an official computer in order for someone to sell them.”
Subramunier allegedly admitted that he copied the discs after being promised R100 000 to do so. However in his statement to investigators Subramunier allegedly claimed that despite the promise he was only ever given R4 000 for his efforts.
This week Subramunier was still working at Sita and working on police computers at the KZN police headquarters.
When The Citizen first contacted Subramunier he denied having copied the images or having confessed to being bribed to do so. “You cannot prove a thing, if you even write that you will be in so much s..t you cannot realise it.
“I will sue you. I don’t know any of the people you are talking about.” Subramunier initially denied knowing the policemen accused of corruption, then later admitted that: “Ja, so they are friends of mine. So what? I’ll have my attorney go after you and then you’ll be crying.”
Later the same day, after being confronted with the information that The Citizen had gathered, Subramunier promised to be interviewed, then reneged and threatened this reporter.
Among the information that The Citizen had gathered was the fact that Subramunier had a history of bad debt but still lives in an upmarket home on the KZN North Coast.
The Citizen also established that Subramunier had worked on the computers where the “death squad” photographs had been stolen from.
The Citizen has also spoken to several police officers from the Cato Manor unit who indicated that Subramunier had repeatedly asked to be registered as a police informer – promising he would be able to supply information on government corruption by accessing government computers during his working hours and copying information from them.
However, after promising to be interviewed on Wednesday, Subramunier changed his tune, saying: “I have given a statement to the Hawks who are shortly going to arrest and jail people. It is illegal for you to contact me. I copied the images because I was getting proof that those people are a lot of drunks and useless… corrupt.
“What I told the Hawks is secret and confidential and under investigation. If you write anything about this you are going to make powerful enemies and probably go to jail. You will be in court forever, you will lose everything. You have no idea how powerful these ous are. These ous are moving with Edward Zuma.”Edward Zuma is the son of President Jacob Zuma.
Repeated attempts to contact Edward Zuma yesterday proved fruitless. A person identifying himself as “Zuma’s business partner” answered Zuma’s phone. Refusing to identify himself, the man denied that Zuma was a business partner of Thoshan Panday’s, but did say: “All that Edward did was to ask for the police to release some money that was owed to Panday and which had been frozen by Booysen. It wasn’t any business deal, Panday owed some money and Edward agreed to help him out.”
Phone calls and SMS messages to Zuma were not answered.
1Unlike · · Share.
You and 13 others like this..
Deon Rudolph The house of "cards"!
2 hours ago · Like · 4.
Samantha van Rooyen ... (
) .... 2 hours ago · Like.
Samantha van Rooyen "....Humpty dumpty had a great fall..."
2 hours ago · Like · 2.
Belinda Van Eck KARMA!!!
2 hours ago · Like · 1.
Duncan Mansfield Tip of the ice berg
2 hours ago · Like.
Leonie Ludwick If the president of a country can walk freely with possible charges of corruption hanging over his head etc..... We will just become another african country where u will not know whom to trust ... It is a scary world out there, all we can do is pray to God for guidance.
about an hour ago · Like.
Samantha van Rooyen They can't take care of helpless endangered wildlife, on the verge of extinction, what hope does the human population have?
32 minutes ago · Like
F
Fudzy
Guest
Another of the accused Cato Manor Organised Crime member dies
Another heart attack! Is stress doing this or something more sinsiter?
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/01/16/another-death-squad-officer-dies
Another heart attack! Is stress doing this or something more sinsiter?
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/01/16/another-death-squad-officer-dies
blunomore
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What are you implying ?
F
Fudzy
Guest
Look at the type of people they're dealing with. Offing witnesses/accomplices might benefit those left when it comes to destroying the case.
*tips his tinfoil hat*
-toady-
Expert Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2004
- Messages
- 2,566
Good on yer for risking the usual derision that comes by suggesting anything might be out of the ordinary. Glen Nayager succumbed to one of these 'heart attacks' at just 49 years old, and there's going to be plenty more policeman going down this way in the coming years. A handy way of keeping mouths shut, and absolutely no chance of proving anything. Welcome to the New Age. J.
Rocket Raccoon
Executive Member
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qu'est-ce f**k? :wtf:
MickeyD
RIP
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NPA appeals ruling to clear HAWKS boss charges
The National Prosecuting Authority is set to appeal a recent Durban High Court decision to set aside all charges against suspended KwaZulu-Natal Hawks head Maj-Gen Johan Booysen.
Booysen's lawyer Carl van der Merwe, speaking from Cape Town on Sunday, said that the NPA had lodged a notice seeking leave to appeal against Judge Trevor Gorven's decision to have all charges against Booysen dropped.
Van der Merwe said that the notice had been lodged with the Durban High Court on Thursday.
"I have been in Cape Town. I have not seen the appeal, but I will be back in Durban on Tuesday and can then look at it," he said.
Gorven's judgement, handed down at the end of February, condemned a decision by then acting national director of public prosecutions Nomgcobo Jiba to prosecute Booysen, saying the charges did not meet even the barest of minimum requirements.
"Even accepting the least stringent test for rationality imaginable, the decision of the NDPP [national director of public prosecutions, Jiba] does not pass muster," he wrote in his ruling.
"I can conceive of no test for rationality, however relaxed, which could be satisfied by her explanation. The impugned decisions were arbitrary, offend the principle of legality and, therefore, the rule of law and were unconstitutional."
Booysen, who was head of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit, had been charged, along with his former unit, of running a criminal enterprise.
Members of the unit are expected to stand trial on a range of charges, including 28 murder counts, later this year.
They allegedly carried out paid hits in the KwaZulu-Natal minibus taxi wars.
Jiba said in her court papers that the unit acted like an organised crime organisation.
Booysen was charged in August 2012 with managing and participating in an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity.
Apart from the racketeering charges, Booysen was accused of two murders, unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition, and defeating or obstructing the course of justice.
Gorven said in his judgment the prosecution had conceded that nothing in the dockets implicated Booysen.
Booysen's application to have the charges set aside was argued in the Durban High Court on February 7 and Gorven handed down his judgment on February 26.
Booysen had argued that Jiba lied about having certain statements before her when she decided to prosecute, and could therefore not have used them to make her decision.
Gorven said Jiba did not have any material before her that could "rationally authorise" Booysen's prosecution. He said Jiba had a responsibility as an officer of the court to be accurate with facts and should have explained or corrected any inaccuracies.
The judge said his decision to invalidate the charges did not amount to a finding that Booysen was innocent and his ruling did not preclude Booysen from being charged again.
Comment could not immediately be obtained from NPA spokesman Nathi Mncube.
If Gorven rejects the NPA's application for leave to appeal, the NPA can then petition the Supreme Court of Appeal.
Source : Sapa /js/mm
Date : 23 Mar 2014 20:53
The National Prosecuting Authority is set to appeal a recent Durban High Court decision to set aside all charges against suspended KwaZulu-Natal Hawks head Maj-Gen Johan Booysen.
Booysen's lawyer Carl van der Merwe, speaking from Cape Town on Sunday, said that the NPA had lodged a notice seeking leave to appeal against Judge Trevor Gorven's decision to have all charges against Booysen dropped.
Van der Merwe said that the notice had been lodged with the Durban High Court on Thursday.
"I have been in Cape Town. I have not seen the appeal, but I will be back in Durban on Tuesday and can then look at it," he said.
Gorven's judgement, handed down at the end of February, condemned a decision by then acting national director of public prosecutions Nomgcobo Jiba to prosecute Booysen, saying the charges did not meet even the barest of minimum requirements.
"Even accepting the least stringent test for rationality imaginable, the decision of the NDPP [national director of public prosecutions, Jiba] does not pass muster," he wrote in his ruling.
"I can conceive of no test for rationality, however relaxed, which could be satisfied by her explanation. The impugned decisions were arbitrary, offend the principle of legality and, therefore, the rule of law and were unconstitutional."
Booysen, who was head of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit, had been charged, along with his former unit, of running a criminal enterprise.
Members of the unit are expected to stand trial on a range of charges, including 28 murder counts, later this year.
They allegedly carried out paid hits in the KwaZulu-Natal minibus taxi wars.
Jiba said in her court papers that the unit acted like an organised crime organisation.
Booysen was charged in August 2012 with managing and participating in an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity.
Apart from the racketeering charges, Booysen was accused of two murders, unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition, and defeating or obstructing the course of justice.
Gorven said in his judgment the prosecution had conceded that nothing in the dockets implicated Booysen.
Booysen's application to have the charges set aside was argued in the Durban High Court on February 7 and Gorven handed down his judgment on February 26.
Booysen had argued that Jiba lied about having certain statements before her when she decided to prosecute, and could therefore not have used them to make her decision.
Gorven said Jiba did not have any material before her that could "rationally authorise" Booysen's prosecution. He said Jiba had a responsibility as an officer of the court to be accurate with facts and should have explained or corrected any inaccuracies.
The judge said his decision to invalidate the charges did not amount to a finding that Booysen was innocent and his ruling did not preclude Booysen from being charged again.
Comment could not immediately be obtained from NPA spokesman Nathi Mncube.
If Gorven rejects the NPA's application for leave to appeal, the NPA can then petition the Supreme Court of Appeal.
Source : Sapa /js/mm
Date : 23 Mar 2014 20:53
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
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- Mar 17, 2005
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- 105,603
Charges against hawks boss formally withdrawn
All charges against suspended KwaZulu-Natal Hawks head Maj-Gen Johan Booysen were withdrawn in the Durban High Court on Monday.
The withdrawal follows a ruling handed down by Judge Trevor Gorven at the end of February, in which he condemned a decision by then acting national director of public prosecutions (NDPP) Nomgcobo Jiba to prosecute Booysen, saying the charges did not meet even the barest of minimum requirements.
Proceedings in Durban were simply a formality as Gorven had ordered that the charges be set aside.
Sello Maema told Judge Kate Pillay the State wanted to withdraw the charges.
"All charges against you have been withdrawn. You are free to go," Pillay told Booysen.
Booysen, who was head of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit, had been charged, along with his former colleagues, of running a criminal enterprise.
Members of the unit were expected to stand trial on a range of charges, including 28 murder counts, later this year.
They allegedly carried out paid hits in the KwaZulu-Natal's minibus taxi wars.
Jiba said in her court papers that the unit acted like an organised crime organisation.
Booysen was charged in August 2012 with managing and participating in an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity.
Apart from the racketeering charges, Booysen was accused of two murders, unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition, and defeating or obstructing the course of justice.
In his judgment, Gorven wrote: "Even accepting the least stringent test for rationality imaginable, the decision of the NDPP does not pass muster.
"I can conceive of no test for rationality, however relaxed, which could be satisfied by her explanation. The impugned decisions were arbitrary, offend the principle of legality and, therefore, the rule of law, and were unconstitutional."
Gorven said the prosecution had conceded that nothing in the dockets implicated Booysen.
Booysen's application to have the charges set aside was argued in the Durban High Court on February 7 and Gorven handed down his judgment on February 26.
The National Prosecuting Authority had initially lodged a notice seeking leave to appeal against Gorven's judgment, but this application was abandoned last week.
Speaking outside court, Booysen said he was relieved.
"This does not mean the fight is completely won," he said.
Booysen said he would like to return to work and said he would discuss his next move with his lawyer Carl van der Merwe, who was also representing the other members of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit.
Asked about his suspension and disciplinary action he faces, Booysen said that according to the police's own regulations he should have faced disciplinary proceedings within 60 days of his suspension.
"It is illegal. We are now approaching 600 days," he said.
Van der Merwe declined to discuss how the withdrawal of the charges against Booysen would affect the case against the other members.
Source : Sapa /js/jk/jje/lp
Date : 31 Mar 2014 11:13
All charges against suspended KwaZulu-Natal Hawks head Maj-Gen Johan Booysen were withdrawn in the Durban High Court on Monday.
The withdrawal follows a ruling handed down by Judge Trevor Gorven at the end of February, in which he condemned a decision by then acting national director of public prosecutions (NDPP) Nomgcobo Jiba to prosecute Booysen, saying the charges did not meet even the barest of minimum requirements.
Proceedings in Durban were simply a formality as Gorven had ordered that the charges be set aside.
Sello Maema told Judge Kate Pillay the State wanted to withdraw the charges.
"All charges against you have been withdrawn. You are free to go," Pillay told Booysen.
Booysen, who was head of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit, had been charged, along with his former colleagues, of running a criminal enterprise.
Members of the unit were expected to stand trial on a range of charges, including 28 murder counts, later this year.
They allegedly carried out paid hits in the KwaZulu-Natal's minibus taxi wars.
Jiba said in her court papers that the unit acted like an organised crime organisation.
Booysen was charged in August 2012 with managing and participating in an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity.
Apart from the racketeering charges, Booysen was accused of two murders, unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition, and defeating or obstructing the course of justice.
In his judgment, Gorven wrote: "Even accepting the least stringent test for rationality imaginable, the decision of the NDPP does not pass muster.
"I can conceive of no test for rationality, however relaxed, which could be satisfied by her explanation. The impugned decisions were arbitrary, offend the principle of legality and, therefore, the rule of law, and were unconstitutional."
Gorven said the prosecution had conceded that nothing in the dockets implicated Booysen.
Booysen's application to have the charges set aside was argued in the Durban High Court on February 7 and Gorven handed down his judgment on February 26.
The National Prosecuting Authority had initially lodged a notice seeking leave to appeal against Gorven's judgment, but this application was abandoned last week.
Speaking outside court, Booysen said he was relieved.
"This does not mean the fight is completely won," he said.
Booysen said he would like to return to work and said he would discuss his next move with his lawyer Carl van der Merwe, who was also representing the other members of the now-disbanded Cato Manor serious and violent crimes unit.
Asked about his suspension and disciplinary action he faces, Booysen said that according to the police's own regulations he should have faced disciplinary proceedings within 60 days of his suspension.
"It is illegal. We are now approaching 600 days," he said.
Van der Merwe declined to discuss how the withdrawal of the charges against Booysen would affect the case against the other members.
Source : Sapa /js/jk/jje/lp
Date : 31 Mar 2014 11:13