The Jordan Peterson discussion thread

Nick333

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Free thought is not a value of christianity or any of the Abrahamic Religions
It's not incompatible with Christianity as far as I can tell.

Free thought isn't a feature of most human culture as far as I can tell, so why single Christianity out?
 

Polymathic

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It's not incompatible with Christianity as far as I can tell.

Free thought isn't a feature of most human culture as far as I can tell, so why single Christianity out?
I didn't I said Abrahamic Religions which also include Judaism and Islam.
 

Nick333

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I didn't I said Abrahamic Religions which also include Judaism and Islam.
Well, let's maintain focus. We were talking about Christianity. How is Christianity incompatible with enlightenment values? Considering its survived 500 years of it quite well.
 

rietrot

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Every religious fundamentalist of the Islamic, Christian and Judaic persuasions
Well I can't believe you spoke to all of them. I can't even believe you got the opinions of 1% of the fundamentalists. I only see some daddy issues.
 

Techne

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The problem with JBP and other Christian Judaism apologists is that they try to attribute the enlightenment as some sort of achievement of a Judeo-Christian ethic . When the thruth is that the enlightenment was a rejection of it
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo intellectual charlatan and there is no such thing as Judeo-Christian ethic. And anybody thinking that the enlightenment was a rejection of some non existing ethic doesn't know what they are talking about.
 

Polymathic

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Well, let's maintain focus. We were talking about Christianity. How is Christianity incompatible with enlightenment values? Considering its survived 500 years of it quite well.
The Enlightenment was a late 17th- and 18th-century intellectual movement emphasizing reason, individualism, skepticism, and science. Enlightenment thinking helped give rise to deism, which is the belief that God exists, but does not interact supernaturally with the universe.
Which part of that lines up with christianity?
 

Techne

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Which part of that lines up with christianity?
You very obviously haven't heard of the Scholastics. Read up, you will need them when you figure out that the crass materialism that arose from the enlightenment utterly destroys reason, science, individualism etc.
 

Urist

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you all sound like Jordan Peterson... so many youtube videos.
I watched a few, very enlightening, my favourite is: Personality 13: Existentialism via Solzhenitsyn and the Gulag
but now my feed is full of cherry picked out of context clips from far right conspiracy channels.
anyway.. my 2c about your topic
I think scientific/medical research may be stifled because we consider some things sacred, human genetic engineering and cloning.
 

kolaval

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Yup that personality series was interesting. I've forgotten most of it though, maybe time to listen to it again.
 

kolaval

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This thread has devolved mostly into insults.
It makes it hard to have a discussion, but I would like to hear some opinions especially from his critics on here, regarding the 12 rules in his book.

Can we at least try to discuss the subject and not it's author? Any criticisms against him(and his critics for that matter) has been voiced as nauseam already.

Rule 1 Stand up straight with your shoulders back.

My take:
There are hierarchies into which we fall.
Yes they're not fair but it is better(for you) to face the world/your problems than to adopt a victim stance.
 

Polymathic

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Yup that personality series was interesting. I've forgotten most of it though, maybe time to listen to it again.
I found the maps of meaning lectures interesting and currently listening to the audio book version. Tried listening to the personality lectures but found the first lecture really boring.
 

Polymathic

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This thread has devolved mostly into insults.
It makes it hard to have a discussion, but I would like to hear some opinions especially from his critics on here, regarding the 12 rules in his book.

Can we at least try to discuss the subject and not it's author? Any criticisms against him(and his critics for that matter) has been voiced as nauseam already.

Rule 1 Stand up straight with your shoulders back.

My take:
There are hierarchies into which we fall.
Yes they're not fair but it is better(for you) to face the world/your problems than to adopt a victim stance.
The book some really forced Bible quotes that go on for too long. Seems though you reading the book through the lens of criticising the SJWs
 

airborne

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His 12 rules book is far from perfect but it has some interesting insights, I find his info generally quite refreshing and well balanced.

From the way I have read it he uses the bible references as they should be, recounting of a fictional story that was used to illustrate core values and life lessons of the people at the time that it was written.

His main target audience is people in the Christian nations so using the Bible in that manner to me seems fairly apt. Granted it may seem quite narrow minded to use the bible the way he has if you are a person who follows a religion other than Christian, I'm not religious so I don't find the bible passages overly grating, I tolerate them
 
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kolaval

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Once again, I'm guessing no one has actually read it though, and source most of their comments online.
The immediate mention of the biblical references seem to indicate it.

Some interesting NON BIBLICAL points in chapter 1 then:

1 Price's law

Lotka_plot.png


This really interests me. I did not think much of it until I saw the Top 40 shelf in a musica the other day.
I'm now curious to know how many of the CD sales are from that shelf vs the rest of the store.
And I'm guessing price's law applies to it as well.

2 Serotonin, and it's effects on the brain.
Reading up on wikipedia:
"Serotonin pathways projecting into the limbic forebrain are also involved in emotional processing, with decreased serotonergic activity resulting in decreased cognition and an emotional bias towards negative stimuli.".

This is why I concluded that is better(for you) to face your problems than to play the victim. link
Nothing to do with SJW's, it's about the effect it has on my brain.
In my case this also means to limit my exposure to the bad news so prevalent in SA. It drains the energy right out of me.

3 Positive feedback loop and how it can have detrimental effects on you e.g alcoholism
Stampede_loop.png
 
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Bobbin

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Well, let's maintain focus. We were talking about Christianity. How is Christianity incompatible with enlightenment values? Considering its survived 500 years of it quite well.
Seems like a grey area. Logically speaking, we need structure/belief/culture in order to trust, act and collaborate effectively. However we also need openness in order to update our set of beliefs to progress and evolve. It is a tricky balancing act where both dogmatic and progressive proponents clash. Christianity brought structure and collaboration, but it also became too dogmatic (As with any belief system).

This is something I think JBP has been trying to drill into our heads for a long time?
 
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kolaval

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Chapter 2 is treat yourself as someone you are responsible for helping.
This one contains a lot of biblical references.

Some interesting points.

1. If 100 people are prescribed a medicine, one-third of them won’t fill the prescription.
Half of the remaining sixty-seven will fill it, but won’t take the medication correctly.
Yet when it is your dog/child that is sick, you'll make sure they take their medication.

I've seen this many times even in my life. When I get the flu, I tend to not want to go to the dr because "I want to not waste the medical savings account", but when one of my daughters gets sick it's a no-brainer.

2. Order is explored territory, chaos is unexplored territory. He personifies them as male and female.
Order is good but can become restrictive/oppressive(as in concentration camp oppressive).
Chaos is good in that it represents new possibilities/ideas/opportunity etc but there is also negative chaos(your partner dies in an accident).

3. It is better to get your kids strong rather than safe because you cannot protect them from everything forever.

4.He actually criticizes the christian idea of self sacrifice somewhat.
To sacrifice ourselves to God (to the highest good, if you like) does not mean to suffer silently and willingly when some person or organization demands more from us, consistently, than is offered in return.
That means we are supporting tyranny, and allowing ourselves to be treated like slaves.
It is not virtuous to be victimized by a bully, even if that bully is oneself.
5. "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you" or "loving your neighbor as yourself" has nothing to do with being nice.

If I understand it correctly he claims that if you do not respect/love/care for yourself you cannot expect others to respect/love/care for you.
 

Polymathic

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Once again, I'm guessing no one has actually read it though, and source most of their comments online.
The immediate mention of the biblical references seem to indicate it.

Some interesting NON BIBLICAL points in chapter 1 then:

1 Price's law

View attachment 540259


This really interests me. I did not think much of it until I saw the Top 40 shelf in a musica the other day.
I'm now curious to know how many of the CD sales are from that shelf vs the rest of the store.
And I'm guessing price's law applies to it as well.

2 Serotonin, and it's effects on the brain.
Reading up on wikipedia:
"Serotonin pathways projecting into the limbic forebrain are also involved in emotional processing, with decreased serotonergic activity resulting in decreased cognition and an emotional bias towards negative stimuli.".

This is why I concluded that is better(for you) to face your problems than to play the victim. link
Nothing to do with SJW's, it's about the effect it has on my brain.
In my case this also means to limit my exposure to the bad news so prevalent in SA. It drains the energy right out of me.

3 Positive feedback loop and how it can have detrimental effects on you e.g alcoholism
View attachment 540237
That's a really stupid assumption as well a stupid argument to back up your claim. The book at it's core is a self help book it's obivious to me that you are projecting your beliefs on SJWs onto the book. I'd suggest you read "Maps Of Meaning" it's a more in-depth scientific look at many of the topics found in ”12 Rules For Life"
 
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