The Jordan Peterson discussion thread

Polymathic

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Seems like a grey area. Logically speaking, we need structure/belief/culture in order to trust, act and collaborate effectively. However we also need openness in order to update our set of beliefs to progress and evolve. It is a tricky balancing act where both dogmatic and progressive proponents clash. Christianity brought structure and collaboration, but it also became too dogmatic (As with any belief system).

This is something I think JBP has been trying to drill into our heads for a long time?
Been watching talk by Richard Carrier who was making an argument that Jesus never existed, he made a very compelling argument that Christianity was an attempt to update Juduasim to the values of the classical period, it makes me think Christianity going to have another reformation to update it for the modern world
 

kolaval

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That's a really stupid assumption as well a stupid argument...
Seriously mmmig is that the best you can do?
I take it you have zero actual opinions/arguments, since instead of being able to discuss the content of my post you have to resort to insults.

How you connect price's law and positive feedback loops to me "projecting my beliefs on SJW's" is beyond me.
 

kolaval

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Interesting things in Chapter 3

A single disagreeable member also may be enough to
destroy the team's capability to work cooperatively, regardless
of the level of agreeableness for other team members
link to study PDF


And then this which I have not yet fully made my mind up about.

Before you help someone, you should find out why that person is in trouble.
You shouldn’t merely assume that he or she is a noble victim of unjust circumstances and exploitation.
It’s the most unlikely explanation, not the most probable.
...
[video=youtube;jQvvmT3ab80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQvvmT3ab80[/video]

Maybe I should at least wait, to help you, until it’s clear that you want to be helped.
Carl Rogers, the famous humanistic psychologist, believed it was impossible to start a therapeutic relationship if the person seeking help did not want to improve.
Rogers believed it was impossible to convince someone to change for the better.
The desire to improve was, instead, the precondition for progress.
 

kolaval

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FYI, to all my racist, sexist, homophobic, neo-nazi SJW hating(big shout out to [MENTION=90593]mmmig[/MENTION]) comrades.
Takealot has the book on special.


Capture.PNG
 

DMNknight

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One of the most interesting things that I have found in this thread is how many crabs we have in our bucket.
People who choose misery want to be surrounded by those who are miserable, so that their circumstances are justified and are no longer responsible for their own well being because of the bandwagon logic.

We attack each other, label each other in clear violation of the strawman and fallacy fallacies. Instead of just listening to each other.

I don't agree with everything everyone says which counts for Jordan Peterson too. He gets things on MGTOW and other things woefully wrong in my view, but underlying it all he has a goodness of purpose about what he says.
But what I do do, is listen without an intent to reply. There is a lot of truth in what is said when it is actively listened to.

When you listen, you get a small glimpse of the other persons perspective and can value their opinion for what it is. In our haste to be right we've forgotten to listen, understand and empathise.
We're in a room surrounded by people shouting their opinions without anyone listening, pretending to be right.

It's really sad that we want to be so right that we're forgetting to be human, fallible and humble.

In the end, JP has some good things to say, his purpose is towards helping people. I wish we could just discuss that.
 

Cray

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ArtyLoop

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One of the most interesting things that I have found in this thread is how many crabs we have in our bucket.
People who choose misery want to be surrounded by those who are miserable, so that their circumstances are justified and are no longer responsible for their own well being because of the bandwagon logic.

We attack each other, label each other in clear violation of the strawman and fallacy fallacies. Instead of just listening to each other.

I don't agree with everything everyone says which counts for Jordan Peterson too. He gets things on MGTOW and other things woefully wrong in my view, but underlying it all he has a goodness of purpose about what he says.
But what I do do, is listen without an intent to reply. There is a lot of truth in what is said when it is actively listened to.

When you listen, you get a small glimpse of the other persons perspective and can value their opinion for what it is. In our haste to be right we've forgotten to listen, understand and empathise.
We're in a room surrounded by people shouting their opinions without anyone listening, pretending to be right.

It's really sad that we want to be so right that we're forgetting to be human, fallible and humble.

In the end, JP has some good things to say, his purpose is towards helping people. I wish we could just discuss that.
I know you aimed this at me so let's sort this out.
I am very much enthusiastic about helping others, and I will do so gladly and with happiness. However, as someone of the view that religion is one of the root causes of why this world is so screwed up I tend to get kind of angry when I see yet another Joe making money off of his own version of the same. I have been burnt by many religions, and not because I was forced into them, it just was a set of circumstances that happened where I had to work with those nutjobs. Having been exposed to Christians, Scientologists and all the others I saw the common denominator and how exceptionally ****ed up those people's notions are. That is my observation and my opinion.

I trust science, and I know that empowering people with the ability to read and think critically is what is sorely needed in this world today. Enough with this religious or pseudo-religious brainwash already.
 

DMNknight

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I don't mind listening to what he has to say on its own merits, but to assume that helping people is his only purpose while he rakes in $80 000 per month off Patreon is a little naive...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/14/patreon-rise-jordan-peterson-online-membership
Exactly my point. Using a straw-man fallacy to attack him because he is earning money off of works created before he became well known or famous (ergo the knowledge in his head, years of study etc.). He may be leveraging his new found fame to create an income, I don't see why the belittles any of his idea's or educated opinions on what he see's as going sideways.
It's always going to be from his perspective, because he has no other perspective to view from.
 

rietrot

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Polymathic

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I don't mind listening to what he has to say on its own merits, but to assume that helping people is his only purpose while he rakes in $80 000 per month off Patreon is a little naive...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/14/patreon-rise-jordan-peterson-online-membership
So making money is suddenly evil? These people who want to support his content and this money helped him create some of his content. FYI he's using the Patreon money to start an online university.
 

DMNknight

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I know you aimed this at me so let's sort this out.
I am very much enthusiastic about helping others, and I will do so gladly and with happiness. However, as someone of the view that religion is one of the root causes of why this world is so screwed up I tend to get kind of angry when I see yet another Joe making money off of his own version of the same. I have been burnt by many religions, and not because I was forced into them, it just was a set of circumstances that happened where I had to work with those nutjobs. Having been exposed to Christians, Scientologists and all the others I saw the common denominator and how exceptionally ****ed up those people's notions are. That is my observation and my opinion.

I trust science, and I know that empowering people with the ability to read and think critically is what is sorely needed in this world today. Enough with this religious or pseudo-religious brainwash already.
No it's not aimed at you at all. Read the whole thread. So many crabs in so many buckets.
Religion didn't do anything at all without people to do it. Religion is a good excuse to offset responsibility.

I don't disagree, Religion has perpetrated some of the greatest evils mankind has ever known and the irony should not escape anyone.
But so have governments and the root cause of it is always people.

I trust science too, but I know that our senses are representations of reality rather than true presentations of it. Our senses lie to us all the time in order to make the universe manageable.

Despite your vehement distrust of religion, you're certainly allowing it to blind you to some truth's in what JP says. You're not listening, which is one of my points.
 

Cray

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Why is it a problem that people pay him for the service he delivers? Do you work for free?
I didn't say it was a problem, I objected the characterization that helping people is his motivation - do you think Alex Jones' motivation is to help people?
 

Cray

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So making money is suddenly evil?
Where did I say that? People are welcome to make money, just don't expect me to accept their ideas without question because of some sort of appeal to Peterson's desire to help people when it's entirely possible his new found high profile could be just about making money.. Not saying it is but you have to accept that possibility...

These people who want to support his content and this money helped him create some of his content. FYI he's using the Patreon money to start an online university.
All if it?
 
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