The key to South Africa's future success in Sport

DigitalSoldier

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stepper maybe baxter was a sad excuse but it was not entirely his fault for him tot properly train a team they all should show up for practise and YES i do know a lot of white south african not british soccer players but because of their skin colour they dont get into any team so they play indoor soccer
 

louisp

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Hi Angelo,

I must say, your arguments in this topic doesn't make sense at all. They are unfounded and non-sensical.

I love to see all our sport teams win no matter what color they are. Bottom line is, you can not compete against the world's best with your B-side.

Get the support structures going. Pump money into development clinics. Give them equipment and opportunities. But select them on performance.

Problem is, these crucial measures is not that visible, thus we just enforce quotas and tell the average voter: "Look, we are taking away from the whites and giving to the blacks"

I know a few sports people who would hate being chosen based on race. They live to be the best.
 

BTTB

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Soccer Timeline since 1862

stepper said:
Shooo, we do I start...
How many whites play soccer (professionally) in South AFrica at the moment?
Can u name them?
I would not comment about the so called overseas based (white) players who somehow remember their SA passports when South Africa is playing in a major tounament but misplace it when they have to help out during qualifying matches for these tournaments.

We saw what happened when a certain English gentleman by the name of Baxter tried to bring 'South African' players that are good or experienced because the warm the benches of their european clubs while leaving players who are based locally because he could communicate with them or they are inexperienced, we didn't qualify for the world cup and kept on coaching rubbish because SAFA wouldn't give him a golden handshake if he resigned.

Rugby, er, I dont think it is seriously imposed for if it was some teams wouldn't convert any black player they have into a winger. Thats my opinion.

Hello Stepper :)

Great to see so many Soccer enthusiasts.

Before I start my reply, I will have you know that I have forwarded a proposal to the City of Cape Town for a site suitable for a Soccer Stadium, despite the fact that I am not really interested in Soccer or any other sports for that matter.
My TV viewing of sport would entail watching the Rugby World Cup like the All Blacks vs The Springboks and that is about it.
Soccer has never been my cup of tea, although I did play soccer at Junior School.
I can only comment on what I see on the TV screen and I don't see any white, indian or coloured dudes playing in the National side. Only Black.
What goes on behind the scenes with soccer I am neither aware of.
I do know that here in Cape Town up until a decade or so ago, clubs like Hellenic were well known and I recall that bit of history well. The Hellenic Team comprised mainly whites if am not mistaken. There were several other teams as well, but I cannot recall all the names now.
"Cape Town City", was another side that I remember. There must have been dozens more?

I was looking at a Timeline of Soccer in South Africa and I would suggest that all you guys take a look at the content. In one instance it is noted in 1970 that, "Coloured and Indian players are purged from African clubs", which is very suggestive that Blacks considered Soccer to be "their" sport of choice.
In 1973 the timeline states more facts,
The Minister of Sport and Recreation, Dr. P.G.J. Koornhof, announces in the House of Assembly that the Government had given approval �for the staging in 1974 of an open national soccer tournament in which the different South African nations can participate on a multinational basis. This is that a South African representative white team, a South African representative Coloured team, a South African representative Indian team and a South African representative Zulu, Xhosa or any other Bantu (sic) national team can compete in the tournament.�

From reading that timeline a lot of old memories came flooding back.
In actual fact there was a lot of competition amongst the different race groups as far as soccer goes and Minister Koornhof in 1973 seemed to be encouraging it. I recall the newspaper reports of these old soccer clubs like Hellenic playing Kaizer Chiefs(1975) in those days.
There was a lot of white, Indian and coloured soccer players back then and I think that has not changed that much except the perception of Black people that only Blacks play soccer in South Africa?
Remember Gary Bailey the famous goalkeeper?

I would certainly have to do more research as to name all the people as I am not up to speed with the latest news as far as soccer goes, but I am certainly not convinced that soccer in South Africa is a purely a Black Only Sport, especially since history tells us that Soccer was introduced into South Africa by white people.

Edit.
Shaun Bartlett
Mark Fish
Benni McCarthy
Delron Buckley
Peter Hughes
Mark Williams
Quinton Fortune

Seems most of these players moved on to "greener pastures".
Links below found by Ajak. Thanks Ajak. :)
Where have the white soccer players gone?
South Africans Playing Overseas
 
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Chris_the_Brit

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DigitalSoldier said:
stepper maybe baxter was a sad excuse but it was not entirely his fault for him tot properly train a team they all should show up for practise and YES i do know a lot of white south african not british soccer players but because of their skin colour they dont get into any team so they play indoor soccer
I was reading an old SA Sports Illustrated (when Baxter was coach) and he had only spent 46 days with the team yet he had 21 matches to prepare for.
 

Angelo

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BTTB said:
Hello Stepper :)

Great to see so many Soccer enthusiasts.

Before I start my reply, I will have you know that I have forwarded a proposal to the City of Cape Town for a site suitable for a Soccer Stadium, despite the fact that I am not really interested in Soccer or any other sports for that matter.
My TV viewing of sport would entail watching the Rugby World Cup like the All Blacks vs The Springboks and that is about it.
Soccer has never been my cup of tea. I did play soccer at Junior School.
I can only comment on what I see on the TV screen and I don't see any white or indian or dudes playing in the National side. Only Black.
What goes on behind the scenes with soccer I am neither aware of.
I do know that here in Cape Town up until a decade or so ago, clubs like Hellenic were well known and I recall that bit of history well. There teams comprised mainly whites if am not mistaken. There were several other teams as well, but I cannot recall all the names now.
Maybe it was "Cape Town City United", sort of rings a bell?

I was looking at a Timeline of Soccer in South Africa and I would suggest that all you guys take a look at the content. In one instance it is noted in 1970 that, "Coloured and Indian players are purged from African clubs", which is very suggestive that Blacks considered Soccer to be "their" sport of choice.
In 1973 the timeline states more facts,
The Minister of Sport and Recreation, Dr. P.G.J. Koornhof, announces in the House of Assembly that the Government had given approval �for the staging in 1974 of an open national soccer tournament in which the different South African nations can participate on a multinational basis. This is that a South African representative white team, a South African representative Coloured team, a South African representative Indian team and a South African representative Zulu, Xhosa or any other Bantu (sic) national team can compete in the tournament.�

From reading that timeline a lot of old memories came flooding back.
In actual fact there was a lot of competition amongst the different race groups as far as soccer goes and Minister Koornhof in 1973 seemed to be encouraging it. I recall the newspaper reports of these old soccer clubs like Hellenic playing Kaizer Chiefs(1975) in those days.
There was lot of white, Indian and coloured soccer players back then and I think that has not changed that much except the perception of Black people that only Blacks play soccer in South Africa?
Remember Gary Bailey the famous goalkeeper?

I would certainly have to do more research as to name all the people as I am not up to speed with the latest news as far as soccer goes, but I am certainly not convinced that soccer in South Africa is a purely a Black Only Sport, especially since history tells us that Soccer was introduced into South Africa by white people.

Edit.
Shaun Bartlett
Mark Fish
Benni McCarthy
Delron Buckley
Peter Hughes
Mark Williams
Quinton Fortune
Of course soccer is not a Black only sport in South Africa like I have said previously, do you remember who hoisted the African Cup of Nations trophy aloft in 1996, what are the chances of that happening in Rugby or Cricket?
 

BTTB

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Angelo said:
Of course soccer is not a Black only sport in South Africa like I have said previously, do you remember who hoisted the African Cup of Nations trophy aloft in 1996, what are the chances of that happening in Rugby or Cricket?
Thanks for that Angelo. :rolleyes:
I was commenting on Stepper's statement, "How many whites play soccer (professionally) in South Africa at the moment?"
So if it isn't a Black only sport then please tell me why there are no quotas imposed on them to make it so?
This is our National Team and it should represent the rainbow nation?
 

Angelo

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BTTB said:
Thanks for that Angelo. :rolleyes:
I was commenting on Stepper's statement, "How many whites play soccer (professionally) in South Africa at the moment?"
So if it isn't a Black only sport then please tell me why there are no quotas imposed on them to make it so?
This is our National Team and it should represent the rainbow nation?
Because whites have NEVER been excluded from the team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby.
 

BTTB

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Angelo said:
Because whites have NEVER been excluded from the team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby.
You are saying that whites have never been excluded from the Soccer Team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby?
 

Angelo

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BTTB said:
You are saying that whites have never been excluded from the Soccer Team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby?
Yes.
 

pupa

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Talking shiite as usual Angelo, Good sportsman excel due to their unique abilities, in a particular sport, not because they could play the sport and know the rules. Many black sportsman dropped out because yes they could bowl and run for a try but that's it, they did not make it. The reason why the soccer team is so piss poor is clear! the reason why Rugby and cricket is performing better is also clear. Let the sportsman rise out of the nation and leave race out of sport, then we will be and remain champs, not because of popular names or colour but because they are unique individuals with unique abilities developed over years of commitment to a sport they love, not because they were told to be sportsman or managed to learn the rules! Ntini rocks and we all see him as part of the team and love him for his unique abilities as he earned his position in the team, did not get it for free riding!
 
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DigitalSoldier

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Like I said before angelo is a racist he can say he is not but in everything he says about the whites its clear he is just a racist
 

ajak

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Angelo said:
Because whites have NEVER been excluded from the team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby.
For crying out loud, someone, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HE MEANS BY THIS STATEMENT.:confused: He must have a very confused chain of thought.Can i not understand it because i`m white?if that is the case i beg your pardon:D
 

BTTB

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ajak said:
For crying out loud, someone, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HE MEANS BY THIS STATEMENT.:confused: He must have a very confused chain of thought.Can i not understand it because i`m white?if that is the case i beg your pardon:D
I was pondering the same thing?

Anyway, I made a post aimed at Stepper and until he replies, this thread doesn't interest me any more.
 
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lilDeath

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Angelo said:
Because whites have NEVER been excluded from the team based on their race unlike in Cricket and Rugby.
WTF?? Is he privvy to some news and information the rest of us do not know about? Is this a deduction? "based on their race" WTF dude??!! :eek:
 
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Vl@d

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"Like I said before angelo is a racist he can say he is not but in everything he says about the whites its clear he is just a racist"

So DigitalSolied, now a person is a racist because they have an oppinion? Did anyone ever stop to think that any person in any team/workplace might have a feeling of wotrhlessness due to them being chosen on their colour of their skin except for what they are worth?

I'm so sick and tired for this "racism" card that are thrown in when ever a conversation doesn't go through the "I'm so sorry we're white" idea.

Don't you think after 10years of saying sorry it's now enough? When will enough be enough? When will everybody understand that democracy will never be truely democratic if one group have to keep saying sorry and the other group keeps reminding them that they don't say sorry enough?

Sport and religion don't need politics to function in all fairness it's a detriment rather than a bonus adding politics to anything.
 

lilDeath

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Vl@d said:
"Like I said before angelo is a racist he can say he is not but in everything he says about the whites its clear he is just a racist"

So DigitalSolied, now a person is a racist because they have an oppinion? Did anyone ever stop to think that any person in any team/workplace might have a feeling of wotrhlessness due to them being chosen on their colour of their skin except for what they are worth?

I'm so sick and tired for this "racism" card that are thrown in when ever a conversation doesn't go through the "I'm so sorry we're white" idea.

Don't you think after 10years of saying sorry it's now enough? When will enough be enough? When will everybody understand that democracy will never be truely democratic if one group have to keep saying sorry and the other group keeps reminding them that they don't say sorry enough?

Sport and religion don't need politics to function in all fairness it's a detriment rather than a bonus adding politics to anything.
I agree with this. And in fact it was not even the current generation which is to blame for "apartheid", but yet we are the ones that are always being reminded on a daily basis and having to bear the consequences (AA, EE) of what "we" put them through. Enough already.

NEways..this thread was about sport...how we get here again??? :confused:
 

Vrotappel

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Originally Posted by Angelo

Of course soccer is not a Black only sport in South Africa like I have said previously, do you remember who hoisted the African Cup of Nations trophy aloft in 1996, what are the chances of that happening in Rugby or Cricket?
Erm, the Bulls C team will thrash any rugby team the rest of Africa can pull together. The same with Cricket.

The fact that Soccer considers the rest of Africa as competition just shows how pi$$ bad they are.
 

Vl@d

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VJB 449 said:
Erm, the Bulls C team will thrash any rugby team the rest of Africa can pull together. The same with Cricket.

The fact that Soccer considers the rest of Africa as competition just shows how pi$$ bad they are.
So true, at this stage I think that even some of the Netball coaches will get more luck with their netball teams in soccer matches.
 
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