The left and the "Nazis"

AlmightyBender

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My definition or checkboxes will be highly subjective, but here goes:

Extreme nationalism
Racists
Homophobic
High authoritarianism (right makes might)
Extreme conservatism
High anti-socialist (no free education, free healthcare etc).
This

I'd add the Us vs Them victim narrative to that list.
In my judgement Afriforum tick all these boxes. EFF and BFLF also tick the boxes in their own way.

It seems pretty clear to me that structurally they are the same types of organizations.
 

Techne

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My definition or checkboxes will be highly subjective, but here goes:

Extreme nationalism
Racists
Homophobic
High authoritarianism (right makes might)
Extreme conservatism
High anti-socialist (no free education, free healthcare etc).
So... Israel and just about every Middle eastern country.
 

Ockie

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Does Israel exist as a Jewish state?
Does Israel forbid gay marriage?
Do they allow free expression of religion? Do they they throws gays off rooftops?? Bitch please. :rolleyes:
 

Xarog

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Do they allow free expression of religion? Do they they throws gays off rooftops?? Bitch please. :rolleyes:
Ok, so to clarify, Pinochet wasn't far right because religious freedom and because no killing the gays?
 

Ockie

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Ok, so to clarify, Pinochet wasn't far right because religious freedom and because no killing the gays?
Oh no you don't. You threw Israel in with the rest of the ME with very specific criteria. Now you stick to it.
 

Xarog

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Oh no you don't. You threw Israel in with the rest of the ME with very specific criteria. Now you stick to it.
Yes. And you're objecting. I'm saying that your objections means Pinochet isn't far right anymore.

And just for the record, Techne (and I) is pointing out how absurd it is to define the far right according to those criteria.
 

Nerfherder

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Virtue signalling and other strange behaviours of the common or garden variety SJW.

So, I've been thinking lately of the the Lefty tendency of vilifying those they disagree with rather than simply offering a counter argument to whatever it is they disagree with.

Here is why I think they use this strategy:

1.) They don't really understand the issues. Let's call this Useful Idiot Syndrome. The sufferer just has a feeling that a certain view point is morally superior, without being able to even explain what makes any given viewpoint morally superior never mind their particular view point. Basically the inability to make real arguments necessitates avoiding real arguments.

2.) Real debate is boring. Let's call this Outrage Junky Syndrome. People can be stupid and fearful, but generally they have good intentions. If one were to have a patient, civil, rational debate with your ideological opponents you might realise that and where are you going to get your endorphin rush then? Which leads to...

3.) Modern society is looking for emotional stimulus. I'm not sure what to call this. Basically we are more willing to reward behaviour that makes us feel emotion than we are to reward something that makes us think. So, if someone can find something that excites our passions we will listen and applaud. Which leads us to...

4.) Modern society is angry and we don't know why. The fact is society doesn't really allow us to just be generally angry. No one likes it when people shout and stamp their feet, unless... we're angry too, in which case we become a mob and it feels good to be a part of a mob. The SJW sphere gives frustrated malcontents something "legitimate" and socially acceptable to be angry about.

5.) Humans are bigots. Tribalism is engrained in our DNA. It's natural to fear and hate the other because that has been a survival trait for the vast majority of human history. So, what's a well meaning dullard who has a deep seated need to hate someone do? " You can't hate people because of their race, gender, sexual preference or creed anymore. Ah wait, you can hate Nazis, such a pity they're just a minor bunch of fringe inbreds these days. Hang on what if they werent? What if there were way more Nazis than can be seen and they're hiding in plain site? Since I'm a good, non bigoted person with the correct opinions that must mean those who disagree with my opinions are clandestine Nazis! Happy days! It's cool to hate again".

And before someone inevitably asks if I'm not doing exactly what I'm accusing the SJWs of, no I'm not. I'm being critical in trying to understand something, I'm not simply applying a label that puts someone beyond consideration. And sure there are those who engage in this exact behaviours on the other side of the political spectrum, I just don't believe it's nearly as prevalent as it is on the left at the moment.
While I'll probably agree with you one most points - we have the current situation with guys actually walking round with swastikas so there definitely are some Nazis.

I agree with most here - the further left or right you come to the same thing. The far left and far right are the same.
 

Xarog

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While I'll probably agree with you one most points - we have the current situation with guys actually walking round with swastikas so there definitely are some Nazis.

I agree with most here - the further left or right you come to the same thing. The far left and far right are the same.
This is such a false equivalence.

Ask yourself: What is the false positive ratio these days that someone is identified as a Nazi?

Conversely, what is the false positive ratio these days that someone is identified as a far leftist?

The two problems are nowhere near the same magnitude. You can't generally characterise right wing talking points as being "everyone who disagrees with me is a commie", but "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" is stereotypical of the left at this point.

Edit:

https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/peta-cows-milk-a-symbol-of-white-supremacy.983917/

Nonsense like this is what Nick is referencing.
 
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Idiosyncratic

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My definition or checkboxes will be highly subjective, but here goes:

Extreme nationalism
Racists
Homophobic
High authoritarianism (right makes might)
Extreme conservatism
High anti-socialist (no free education, free healthcare etc).
Almost all characteristics that far left groups can possess as well (at least by definition - but we see it in practice too)
 

rietrot

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Main difference between left and right is capitalism vs communism. Then you also have differentiate between authoritarian and libertarian. Centre is a mix of everything, some capitalism, some social safety nets some big government and some freedoms.

Authoritarian groups tend to group people for identity politics purposes , like Nazis and marxist. Where libertarians value personal liberty more and that just happen to be far right.

Left libertarianism as in true Marxism (true communism) doesn't exist.

Far right = laissez-faire capitalism, libertarianism, personal liberty.

Nazis = socialist lefties, crony capitalism with state control of everything.
 
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Xarog

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Main difference between left and right is capitalism vs communism. Then you also have differentiate between authoritarian and libertarian. Centre is a mix of everything, some capitalism, some social safety nets some big government and some freedoms.
Well, as it's playing out in mainstream culture right now it basically boils down to a fight over globalism versus nationalism. Capitalism versus communism is a side issue, it's just that communism has been traditionally globalist in orientation.
 

rietrot

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Well, as it's playing out in mainstream culture right now it basically boils down to a fight over globalism versus nationalism. Capitalism versus communism is a side issue, it's just that communism has been traditionally globalist in orientation.
Globalisation is just the next level of bigger state control. It fits in perfectly with leftist authoritarianism. The difference with the right authoritarians in that regard is at least they want control for themselves very selfishly an don't want to share that control with the greater world order. So you can get strong nationalism and maybe empire building but not globalism on the right.
 

Xarog

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Globalisation is just the next level of bigger state control. It fits in perfectly with leftist authoritarianism. The difference with the right authoritarians in that regard is at least they want control for themselves very selfishly an don't want to share that control with the greater world order. So you can get strong nationalism and maybe empire building but not globalism on the right.
The people who want power in a selfish way are just as happy to lie about their ideological motivations as they are to tell the truth. I don't think that's a useful paradigm to analyse the situation from.

Globalism supports the victimhood narrative, nationalism doesn't.
 

rietrot

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The people who want power in a selfish way are just as happy to lie about their ideological motivations as they are to tell the truth. I don't think that's a useful paradigm to analyse the situation from.

Globalism supports the victimhood narrative, nationalism doesn't.
Marxism is build on that power struggle and being victims and fighting for the people.
I think it works.
The Nazis are quite interesting as they were victims at first but then they transitioned into having more nationalism and pride.
I think the most dangerous aren't those who lie for power, but those that actually believe and take there ideology too seriously.
 

Xarog

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Marxism is build on that power struggle and being victims and fighting for the people.
I think it works.
The Nazis are quite interesting as they were victims at first but then they transitioned into having more nationalism and pride.

If you want to understand where the Nazis came from, then this guy is probably one of the best starting points you can find.
 
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