The Lives of Animals (with acknowledgment to JM Coetzee)

Tigerman

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Perhaps this is more philosophical than natural sciences (I can't post to the philosophy thread?) but how do we in SA treat our domestic and other animals?

A couple of weeks ago a stray dog called Warrior was almost buried alive at a school in Khayelitsha by school janitors after the principal told them to attend to the nuisance been created by the dog. He denies giving the instruction. A volunteer at the school reported it to a local animal clinic, whose staff rescued the dog in time.

A prominent advocate wrote to the Cape Times and criticized the the governing party in the Western Cape, Democratic Alliance, for failing to act regarding sterilising animals, thereby helping create a situation where mass euthanasia is taking place. In a followup letter he said without a mass sterilisation programme, supported by authorities, organisations like the SPCA are 'making a living' out of killing animals. Harsh words and perhaps unfair but anyone who has read JM Coetzee's 'Disgrace' will understand.

In the link below the advocate states the national draft animal care policy may have stalled - an 'impasse' - because of the Zulu customary practice of young men killing a bull with their bare hands. He says the DA does not have an animal care policy. But dose any party? Is life in SA so disposable - newborn babies dumped, terrible murders daily - that care of animals is the last thing on our minds? Is this what we want for ourselves? Are the events foretold in Disgrace true. Is this the nation we want to lie in?

http://www.ifaisa.org/Animal_Welfare_Policy,_the_Western_Cape.html
 

BCO

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Perhaps this is more philosophical than natural sciences (I can't post to the philosophy thread?) but how do we in SA treat our domestic and other animals?

A couple of weeks ago a stray dog called Warrior was almost buried alive at a school in Khayelitsha by school janitors after the principal told them to attend to the nuisance been created by the dog. He denies giving the instruction. A volunteer at the school reported it to a local animal clinic, whose staff rescued the dog in time.

A prominent advocate wrote to the Cape Times and criticized the the governing party in the Western Cape, Democratic Alliance, for failing to act regarding sterilising animals, thereby helping create a situation where mass euthanasia is taking place. In a followup letter he said without a mass sterilisation programme, supported by authorities, organisations like the SPCA are 'making a living' out of killing animals. Harsh words and perhaps unfair but anyone who has read JM Coetzee's 'Disgrace' will understand.

In the link below the advocate states the national draft animal care policy may have stalled - an 'impasse' - because of the Zulu customary practice of young men killing a bull with their bare hands. He says the DA does not have an animal care policy. But dose any party? Is life in SA so disposable - newborn babies dumped, terrible murders daily - that care of animals is the last thing on our minds? Is this what we want for ourselves? Are the events foretold in Disgrace true. Is this the nation we want to lie in?

http://www.ifaisa.org/Animal_Welfare_Policy,_the_Western_Cape.html

Animals are considered "property" in South Africa. Therein lies the root of the problem, in my opinion.
 

Tigerman

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As they're considered almost every place in the word. But as sentient beings they are elevated above inanimate property, which is why most places, even now China i understand, has some guidelines on their welfare and care.
Even if they're lower order living beings, aren't we responsible to care for them, as we would with other property, and ensure uncontrolled numbers do not create a conflict situation in communities.
Actually, formal sterilisation for domestic animals is win-win for everyone and if there was political will it could be fairly easily addressed, which is what the advocate said.
 
P

Picard

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In Suf Africa we call them the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals)

In the US of A they have a more apt naming for their body for animal rights.

The Humane Society.

If people are killing animals in evil ways they are not just CRUEL but rather INHUMANE ... which is also an apt naming for some other individuals here in Suf Africa.
 
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Garson007

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Why should I care for an animal? Why should the constitution care? Unlike native human populations (and arguably the great apes), animals have no self-awareness. Let's first solve the problem for those who know they exist. Once that happens...

Not to say that the abuse of animals should go unnoticed. Someone who takes pleasure in killing of animals should be arrested and rehabilitated. The killing and abuse of animals is generally an early warning system for human violence and must be monitored and dealt with. However the measures in place must be strictly there with the idea of preventing future human violence, while the lack of violence towards animals would be a nice side-effect.
 

BCO

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Why should I care for an animal? Why should the constitution care? Unlike native human populations (and arguably the great apes), animals have no self-awareness. Let's first solve the problem for those who know they exist. Once that happens...

Not to say that the abuse of animals should go unnoticed. Someone who takes pleasure in killing of animals should be arrested and rehabilitated. The killing and abuse of animals is generally an early warning system for human violence and must be monitored and dealt with. However the measures in place must be strictly there with the idea of preventing future human violence, while the lack of violence towards animals would be a nice side-effect.

Most nonhuman animals wouldn't pass a mirror test, sure, but a lot of them can feel pain, anxiety and psychological trauma. For those reasons, we should not hurt them.

Additionally, there are question marks around the mirror test as a valid measure of self-awareness for creatures who do not rely primarily on vision. Even some children as old as 6 years fail the mirror test.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=kids-and-animals-who-fail-classic-mirror
 
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Garson007

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Most nonhuman animals wouldn't pass a mirror test, sure, but a lot of them can feel pain, anxiety and psychological trauma.
I never disputed that. There is however no sense of future or identity. The pain, the anxiety - all that is just stimulus and adaptation to the stimulus. An animal doesn't fear death as a death of who they are - they fear death because it will hurt.

Again, I'm not condoning any sort animal abuse. I just feel it's not as big an issue as people make it out to be, because they can't comprehend something not having human character traits - like self-awareness. We've been anthropomorphising animals since the dawn of time, and I'm not sure that course of action is in our interests as a rational and logical society.

There is still much to learn about animal psychology and we should learn as much about it as possible. With that knowledge we can potentially make the best choices possible, on a real scientific basis. The mirror test is only one of those.
 
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