The NHI is not a punishment: health minister

konfab

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It would be good if they showed examples of the countries that implement a national health system when their economy was in the kind of trouble South Africa is facing.
The government will give you the example of Cuba.

Oh, and they pay their doctors less than our minimum wage.
Cuban doctors generally remark that becoming a doctor in their country is not about the money but about the need to help others. This was one of the first things I was taught in medical school. Though a noble sentiment, this is a main issue with the Cuban model. The government spends roughly US$300-$400(£240-£320) per person each year on healthcare, pays doctors $64 (£52) per month, but gains about US$8 billion (£6.4 billion) annually as a result of its overseas medical missions. It’s difficult to say where the gains obtained by the government is invested.
https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526

And one of the kinder parts of socialism is where the state tells its doctors to encourage woman with risky pregnancies to abort rather than carry to term.

Misreporting to meet fixed targets is not the only reason for the low infant mortality rate. An ethnographic study of the Cuban health system showed that physicians who worried that a mother’s behavior might lead to missing the centrally established targets will prescribe the forceful internment in a state clinic (casa de maternidad) so that they may regulate her behavior.4 Physicians often perform abortions without clear consent of the mother, raising serious issues of medical ethics, when ultrasound reveals fetal abnormalities because ‘otherwise it might raise the infant mortality rate’
https://mises.org/power-market/dont-trust-cuban-health-care-statistics

This is what the NHI will bring to South Africa, mandatory abortions. Which of course is the eco-facist's wet dream.
 

OCP

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They'll take your ADT fees to sponsor the SAPS - but only to protect the townships. So you'll have to pay ADT twice.
Not quite - you will pay your ADT fees to government as tax but you are not allowed to have your own contracted security; only the state can provide that ;-)
 

Pitbull

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Why not do this...

Increase my tax by 1 or even 2%, allocate that purely for public health. Leave medical aid and medical institutions they way they are and invest more in public health services and hospitals. Off set the increase in tax as a rebate for people who have medical aids thus not putting more strain on the already burdened public health service.

That way everyone wins.
 

Mike Hoxbig

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Why not do this...

Increase my tax by 1 or even 2%, allocate that purely for public health. Leave medical aid and medical institutions they way they are and invest more in public health services and hospitals. Off set the increase in tax as a rebate for people who have medical aids thus not putting more strain on the already burdened public health service.

That way everyone wins.
That 1 or 2% won't go towards healthcare. It will be used for personal enrichment like every other tax we pay.

What's wrong with using the existing health budget for fixing the stuff up that's public healthcare? This is e-tolls all over again, but on a larger scale...
 

The_Librarian

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That 1 or 2% won't go towards healthcare. It will be used for personal enrichment like every other tax we pay.

What's wrong with using the existing health budget for fixing the stuff up that's public healthcare? This is e-tolls all over again, but on a larger scale...
What you said, but they are going full retard, no matter what happens.
 

Pitbull

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hat 1 or 2% won't go towards healthcare. It will be used for personal enrichment like every other tax we pay.
And that I see being a problem with NHI too.

The idea is sound, but as it stands the money will just be looted and no benefit will be given to anyone, be it some shack dweller or Corporate executive. Either way we're all going to get screwed once again!
 

Agent_Smith

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And when this fails miserably, no one will be held accountable. The South African (ANC) way...
 

R13...

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Why not do this...

Increase my tax by 1 or even 2%, allocate that purely for public health. Leave medical aid and medical institutions they way they are and invest more in public health services and hospitals. Off set the increase in tax as a rebate for people who have medical aids thus not putting more strain on the already burdened public health service.

That way everyone wins.
Government doesn't just want the money going toward private care they also want the facilities and staff resources so they'd never agree to leave private be. Though as I understand it, private facilities won't be compelled they'll just be forced by the lure of money
 

Pitbull

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Government doesn't just want the money going toward private care they also want the facilities and staff resources so they'd never agree to leave private be. Though as I understand it, private facilities won't be compelled they'll just be forced by the lure of money
They already have issues getting payments from listed companies as it is. Can you imagine the fark-up having to wait for government to pay... I highly doubt private facilities will by in at all if that is the case
 

Neuk_

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Why not do this...

Increase my tax by 1 or even 2%, allocate that purely for public health. Leave medical aid and medical institutions they way they are and invest more in public health services and hospitals. Off set the increase in tax as a rebate for people who have medical aids thus not putting more strain on the already burdened public health service.

That way everyone wins.
I wouldn't entirely mind this but would have to forget that current taxes that are meant to be used for public healthcare are being looted and adding more tax will do nothing to remedy neither the looting or the poorly run public healthcare system. One of my primary issues with NHI, ignoring the looting and poorly run public healthcare system, is being told from how or where I can access healthcare from especially if i am willing to spend my own money to get it. There are so many holes in this plan it would be laughable that anyone believes it will work if the country weren't in such a dire situation already.
 

The_Librarian

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They already have issues getting payments from listed companies as it is. Can you imagine the fark-up having to wait for government to pay... I highly doubt private facilities will by in at all if that is the case
I recall that there was mention made of skilled doctors and nurses doing mass exits... if I was a medical professional, I would've done the same - get out...
 

The_Librarian

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I wouldn't entirely mind this but would have to forget that current taxes that are meant to be used for public healthcare are being looted and adding more tax will do nothing to remedy neither the looting or the poorly run public healthcare system. One of my primary issues with NHI, ignoring the looting and poorly run public healthcare system, is being told from how or where I can access healthcare from especially if i am willing to spend my own money to get it. There are so many holes in this plan it would be laughable that anyone believes it will work if the country weren't in such a dire situation already.
It will work.
*laughter*
Come on, I promise you, it really will work.
*more laughter*
No, really, cross my heart, it really will work!
*hysterical laughter*
 

Neuk_

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It will work.
*laughter*
Come on, I promise you, it really will work.
*more laughter*
No, really, cross my heart, it really will work!
*hysterical laughter*
In the words of every "successful" socialist/communist...

"But we will do it properly!"
 

noxibox

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One of my primary issues with NHI, ignoring the looting and poorly run public healthcare system, is being told from how or where I can access healthcare from especially if i am willing to spend my own money to get it. There are so many holes in this plan it would be laughable that anyone believes it will work if the country weren't in such a dire situation already.
You won't be told who you can see if you're using your own money. It only applies if you want the NHI to pay.

Even private health insurance doesn't necessarily guarantee that you get to choose. In South Africa they nudge you towards their preferred providers by making payment deals with them. In other countries they'll only pay if you use someone they have a deal with. Only guarantee of choice is paying for everything yourself.

Government doesn't just want the money going toward private care they also want the facilities and staff resources so they'd never agree to leave private be. Though as I understand it, private facilities won't be compelled they'll just be forced by the lure of money
They could make the same money they do now, by providing much lower quality services at a lower price, but for more people. If they continue to charge what they do now the costs to provide for everyone will be extremely high. If private hospitals choose the option of continuing to service a small percentage of the population at very high prices, then I can definitely see the next move from the government being to take over private facilities. They've made similar threats against state schools that are heavily funded by parents and have strict class size limits. They've also hinted at wanting to do away with completely private schools.
 

Neuk_

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You won't be told who you can see if you're using your own money. It only applies if you want the NHI to pay.
That is not what I have read or been told at all, the entire healthcare industry will be controlled by the government/state with private healthcare and medical aids as we currently know them will cease to exist.

Even private health insurance doesn't necessarily guarantee that you get to choose. In South Africa they nudge you towards their preferred providers by making payment deals with them. In other countries they'll only pay if you use someone they have a deal with. Only guarantee of choice is paying for everything yourself.
I have little issue with this.
 
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