- Jul 11, 2005
See hidden discussions | Win great prizes | Get free support
Nope I have statistics proving the contrary:I am not pointing to science - there hasn't been enough time to see yet - what I am pointing to - and none - of the anti-vaxxers can dispute this - is the fact that there are globally FAR and SIGNIFCANTLY less vaxxed people on ventilators, than unvaxxed.
Now go stand in your corner
Lets be honest, Isreal has trustworthy statistics say compared to Brazil. The stats speak for themselves.
View attachment 1137334
There's a marked difference in vaccination rates for people younger than 40 between "mid May" where you drew it (blue - start of May), and actual mid May where it actually is (red). Especially in the 30-39 age group @ >50% vaccinated by mid May). And, the >40 plus age group was actually sitting @ >75% vaccinated by mid May.
And please note, and remember, that start of May (Where you drew the blue line was about the 10th) Delta was only at about 25%.
And again.. Not as pronounced... But relevant.
View attachment 1137338
That is mid May on that graph. With Delta sitting around 62.5(ish)% of cases.
It was 50% around, I'm estimating, 10 May.
There are also more detailed information in that pdf presentation. Which I was happy to lift for further discussion.
View attachment 1137368
The percentage for Alpha variant deaths (all time, any status) is indeed about 1.9%. That holds true.
However I feel that you've slightly skewed some of your initial premises through incorrectly indicating mid May.
And, the data table you provided is data from 1 Feb 2021 up to 15 August 2021. Not up to mid may. By August 2021 vaccination for all age groups >25 was above 50%. And >50 above 80%. So that is the vaccination rates that apply to the table. And Delta was by far the predominant strain for new cases in the UK (looks damned close to 100%)
The above table is presented by the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths graph and usefully breaks it down according to age group. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, it does not contain data for a vaxxed vs unvaxxed percentage death comparison. This is needed to get a more accurate comparison in the percentage deaths for unvaxxed in the different variants. Why do we need an accurate comparison in the percentage deaths for unvaxxed in the different variants? It is useful indication how deadly the different variants are in the unvaxxed population.Now - To the numbers: (again - 1 Feb to 15 Aug) (Not mid May):
-Overall unvaccinated people were only 44.4% as likely to die as vaccinated people. (But. How can this be!!!???)
-Because, of the 183133 unvaccinated people who contracted the Delta variant, during that time period, only 4891 were >50. And 178240 were <50.
-While, of the 163 329 vaccinated people who contracted the Delta variant, during that time period, 39131 were >50. And 124197 were <50.
-And, due to the much higher risk associated with the >50 age group, it pretty much explains why the vaccinated group, with a greater proportion of >50s have a higher total death rate.
-The unvaccinated <50 were 1.32x as likely to die as vaccinated people <50.
-The unvaccinated >50 were 3.415x as likely to die as vaccinated people >50.
As per those statistics.
I was not able to find data that shows the splits between <50<, and between vaccinated and unvaccinated for the Alpha variant. But, I did find this. (no vaccination information sadly)
View attachment 1137376
1 Apr to 1 Jul was between waves.
But, it is clear that the toll among those >45 was severe during the previous wave (before 1 Apr), when Delta was only a scary blip on the radar on the UK.
And this with the peak of the previous wave (what looks to be 15 Jan) being before the start of the data shown above.
The risk spread between the age groups, for both hospitalisation and death has markedly evened out during the current wave ( after 1Jul). Although figures in every bracket is much lower now than even during the tail end of the last wave.
So I think the only thing left worth speculating about is why relatively fewer unvaccinated >50 cases were recorded.
None of what you were speculating about.
1) The data clearly shows increased death rates for both the <50 and >50 of age unvaccinated groups.
So that actually just leave us with four likely options
A) The Delta variant is somehow less infectious among >50 unvaccinated than the >50 vaccinated ( which I find highly unlikely)
B) The unvaccinated >50 age group is now extra careful and paranoid. (which arguably would be a good thing)
C) Something else (you have to have that in there, otherwise you're just assuming you know it all, and am covering all bases)
Could it simply be that during the current wave, after 1 Jul, vaccination rates for >50s were incredibly high? >=90%!!!
Hmm... I wonder.
In any case if you trust the data from that source, then I assume you trust the source. As I myself do to a significant extent.
Here's the 23 July risk assessment for the Delta Variant (once it had completely taken over).
Information that I, for one, find noteworthy (especially the indicators where there's high confidence of the findings)
Please be sure to properly differentiate between symptomatic infection, hospitalisation and transmission.
View attachment 1137370
Show me where I asked for studies? I asked for studies from the other guy BECAUSE he asked for them first. Both fully knowing that there hasn't been enough time for that kind of study. Point remains - indisputably - that less vaxxed are dying than vaxxed. I would rather be alive and worry about the unproven woowoo around booster shots - speaking of vaccination boosters in general - than be dead, thanks.You ask for PHD level peer reviewed studies. And you reply with pseudo philosophical nonsense. Lol.
Did you just assume my gender?Show me where I asked for studies? I asked for studies from the other guy BECAUSE he asked for them first. Both fully knowing that there hasn't been enough time for that kind of study. Point remains - indisputably - that less vaxxed are dying than vaxxed. I would rather be alive and worry about the unproven woowoo around booster shots - speaking of vaccination boosters in general - than be dead, thanks.
Aka antivaxxer university.Who said anything about Youtube videos.
My mother lives in a different province. Not your business anyway. The fact is YOU HAVE NO BETTER SOLUTION. Just naysaying and NOTHING else. Nada.But have it your way, just don't come and blame us then you killed your mother.
So go get vaxxed. I have no issues with people having self determination. People pushing their agenda without facts, that I do.Show me where I asked for studies? I asked for studies from the other guy BECAUSE he asked for them first. Both fully knowing that there hasn't been enough time for that kind of study. Point remains - indisputably - that less vaxxed are dying than vaxxed. I would rather be alive and worry about the unproven woowoo around booster shots - speaking of vaccination boosters in general - than be dead, thanks.
Well now you have an answer to your statistics - second shot being administered too soon, most likely. And also, this isn't Israel. We don't see that here. We see that less vaccinated people in your country are dying, than unvaccinated ones. That is the *reality* on the ground on which you walk, live and die. The next *reality* is that whilst we KNOW that what is happening in Israel is ONLY happening in Israel (and now we know why) - you have no actual evidence that vaccinations of any kind are significantly long-term harmful, that has ever been proven.Nope I have statistics proving the contrary:
Oh wait its "genetics" guess those vaccinated with Israeli heritage are screwed according to your study? Any idea how ridiculous you sound?