The Problem With Africa's Borders

rambo919

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Pretty sure the vast majority of the DNA of the Muslim population is Egyptian, springled with some DNA from the conquering Arabs and some Black slaves.
So the majority is a blended population then depending on the sprinkling, I doubt it's only a light sprinkling. Of course I could be wrong I guess.

EDIT: Googled now a bit and it seems that not only can no one agree on what ethnicity the ancient egyptians were no one can say for certain what ethnicity the current egyptians are.... seems like the area has been race-mixed since the very beginning and now is no exception. So yeah I was wrong.
 
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Polymathic

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So the majority is a blended population then depending on the sprinkling, I doubt it's only a light sprinkling. Of course I could be wrong I guess.
8% black, 17% Arab and a high amount of Berber probably comparable to the amount Arab DNA and under 2% European. Looking at around 40% non Egyptian DNA.

Funny enough Levantine Arabs fall into the same population cluster as Egyptians and they don't have as much admixture as Egyptians modern Egyptians do. Making them more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians than modern ones.
 

rambo919

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8% black, 17% Arab and a high amount of Berber probably comparable to the amount Arab DNA and under 2% European. Looking at around 40% non Egyptian DNA.

Funny enough Levantine Arabs fall into the same population cluster as Egyptians and they don't have as much admixture as Egyptians modern Egyptians do. Making them more genetically similar to ancient Egyptians than modern ones.
What got me was accounts of ancient lower and upper Egyptians being different skin tones, which would mean that at some point two different races probably started mixing to create the later Egyptians.

Taking everything into account including later Greek infusions I don't think Egypt ever really was completely homogeneous.
 

Polymathic

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What got me was accounts of ancient lower and upper egyptians being different skin tones, which would mean that at some point two different races probably started mixing to create the later egyptions.
Maybe that's where the 8% comes from
 

saturnz

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And what does the US which you seem to hate ignoring the UN sometimes have to do with egypt?
I'll give you another chance to rephrase.

Also please refer to my original point which started this discussion, I'm sticking to that point, I'm not the one that introduced the US or the UN into this equation.
 

rambo919

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yes, because the regional powers leverage division to create further division
African tribes have been in a continual state of conflict with each other for mellenia, borders are merely the newest excuse. Wakanda is a myth.
 

saturnz

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African tribes have been in a continual state of conflict with each other for mellenia, borders are merely the newest excuse. Wakanda is a myth.
I've acknowledged this point a long time ago in this thread, try to keep up.

The point here though is that there are outside parties interfering, not allowing progress towards peaceful outcomes.

Borders effectively make the conflict permanent.
 

rambo919

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I've acknowledged this point a long time ago in this thread, try to keep up.

The point here though is that there are outside parties interfering, not allowing progress towards peaceful outcomes.

Borders effectively make the conflict permanent.
Depends on the borders, many have actually been redrawn in the past..... simply removing borders will actually increase conflict.

The middle east is full of non-european imperial borders, it's not a white thing.

Yes some borders can cause conflict but only blaming borders for anything is looking for excuses.
 

etienne_marais

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Yeah, I don't lean to the PC side of things but as far as borders and conflict go it is more complex, sometimes colonial powers drew arbitrary lines (even dividing homogeneous tribes into neighbouring countries) and had little insight into administrative and grassroots issues. Some say the Mfikane / Difiqane was triggered by the British slave trade (Bristol's wealth was based on slave trade). Belgians in the Congo etc. etc.
 

saturnz

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Depends on the borders, many have actually been redrawn in the past..... simply removing borders will actually increase conflict.
within the nation state system ofcourse conflict will persist. Others have already acknowledged in this thread that Africans do not have much freedom to self determination, so drawing new borders is a pointless exercise, what is needed is for third parties to stop interfering and escalating division.

The middle east is full of non-european imperial borders, it's not a white thing.
I didn't say anything about white, this is all you.

I'm not sure where you get your facts from about the middle east, but please share your sources.

Yes some borders can cause conflict but only blaming borders for anything is looking for excuses.
did I say only borders are to blame for conflict?
 

rambo919

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within the nation state system ofcourse conflict will persist. Others have already acknowledged in this thread that Africans do not have much freedom to self determination, so drawing new borders is a pointless exercise, what is needed is for third parties to stop interfering and escalating division.
Never in history has that EVER happened yet ANYWHERE.

I didn't say anything about white, this is all you.
European borders were blaimed hence whites..... though I might be too sensitive about this by now.

I'm not sure where you get your facts from about the middle east, but please share your sources.
Dude seriously? There are layers of old imperial borders there, the Ottoman empire merely being the latest.

did I say only borders are to blame for conflict?
You said they are the major cause, they are merely the latest one.
 

rambo919

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so because it never happened, it can't happen

is that your premise?
Until something have been proven to be able to happen long term it is foolish to believe it's going to happen without super-human effort.

The best predictor of the future is the past.

This is one reason why utopias always fail, they attempt the literal impossible.
 

saturnz

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Until something have been proven to be able to happen long term it is foolish to believe it's going to happen without super-human effort.
not super human effort, I will repeat since it just fails to sink in, stop having third parties interfering and actually escalating tensions.

The best predictor of the future is the past.
please post a reference for this, especially within the context of human behavior on a societal level.

This is one reason why utopias always fail, they attempt the literal impossible.
once again another example of you putting words in my mouth, your strawmen are pathetic
 

rambo919

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not super human effort, I will repeat since it just fails to sink in, stop having third parties interfering and actually escalating tensions.
Of course they do, I never denied that. The superhuman effort required is to somehow make them stop.... it has never in all of history happened that third parties have not interfered.... it's not a modern phenomena.

please post a reference for this, especially within the context of human behavior on a societal level.
It's common sense mate....
EDIT: in war history this is also common teaching, all wars waged the same regardless of date usually end the same way

once again another example of you putting words in my mouth, your strawmen are pathetic
Interesting that you would call it a strawman, I simply said a world in which third parties don't interfere is a utopia.
 

saturnz

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Of course they do, I never denied that. The superhuman effort required is to somehow make them stop.... it has never in all of history happened that third parties have not interfered.... it's not a modern phenomena.
what do you mean make them stop? the idea is for nobody to suggest to these people what to do, allow them to figure things out themselves,

It's common sense mate....
if you don't have a reference for your assertion about best predictor, I will have to dismiss it. If its as common sense as you suggest, it shouldn't be hard to find a credible reference.

Interesting that you would call it a strawman, I simply said a world in which third parties don't interfere is a utopia.
you have pretty low standards for what a utopia is, I doubt you are going to find a reference for that either, let me guess, also common sense?
 

rambo919

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fine, do as you will, ur either daft or missing my points on purpose anyway
 
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