The racism related news articles thread

[R13...]

Does that mean legislation ( as we have ) limiting a business as to who they choose to employ?

If so - f**k that.

That's not really the intention of that legislation, is it? The opposite in fact, the legislation is intended to make it so that people are employed on their ability or potential rather simply checking their skin colour and deciding such colour=inherent competence and that colour=inherent incompetence. You may disagree with the legislation but the colour based competence employment continues to happen in this and other countries which is why they have EE enforcement.

 

[ponder]

Why should "violence" be the only metric that is used to decide on the seriousness?

I honestly cant understand how you can't see the difference.

 

[Xarog]

Its the definition of hate speech, its already in law, its criminalised already.

Show where, please.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Show where, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#South_Africa

South Africa[edit]
In South Africa, hate speech (along with incitement to violence and propaganda for war) is specifically excluded from protection of free speech in the Constitution. The Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000 contains the following clause:

[N]o person may publish, propagate, advocate or communicate words based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, against any person, that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to―

be hurtful;
be harmful or to incite harm;
promote or propagate hatred.[62]
The "prohibited grounds" include race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.

The crime of crimen injuria ("unlawfully, intentionally and seriously impairing the dignity of another")[63] may also be used to prosecute hate speech.[64]

In 2011, a South African court banned "Dubula iBhunu (Shoot the Boer)", a derogatory song degrading Afrikaners, on the basis that it violated a South African law prohibiting speech that demonstrates a clear intention to be hurtful, to incite harm, or to promote hatred.[65]

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

With all due respect it would be wise to find out the details before you convert! Please tell me I am fascinated why the EFF and not the DA? Is it fear of regression driving this decision or do you genuinely think the EFF is the best thing for SA particularly the underprivileged?

I've had this discussion with ngwe23 before, so I hope he doesn't mind (can find the post if needs be, probably in this thread way back), but I think I grasp his logic.

It is a case of DA = nats and one can never ever ever vote for those guys regardless of their policies. The fact that the nats and the NP and NNP are long gone doesn't sway it. So if you discount the DA it really is just EFF and ANC left unless you want to waste your vote on any of the other parties who don't have any chance in hell. That kind of automatically means if you become jaded by the ANC (this happened only after our last chat on the topic, well done ngwe23!) you only have the EFF left as an option.

 

[ngwe23]

With all due respect it would be wise to find out the details before you convert! Please tell me I am fascinated why the EFF and not the DA? Is it fear of regression driving this decision or do you genuinely think the EFF is the best thing for SA particularly the underprivileged?

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

 

[Deadmanza]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

LOL!

You are probably born long after the fall of the apartheid government, are you seeing this through the eyes of your elders?

 

[ToxicBunny]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

How old are you?
And do you have actual concrete numbers of the DA Membership to make such a blanket statement?

 

[Xarog]

Why should "violence" be the only metric that is used to decide on the seriousness?

"I love black people. Sending them to God is a good thing, therefore I call on everyone to kill a black person today."

This sentiment is not racist nor is it hate speech, and yet it would not count as legitimate free speech because of the incitement to violence.

The limitation on free speech is not designed to protect human dignity or any other such claptrap, it is designed to prevent people from encouraging others to do specific acts where those acts themselves present a physical danger to the wellbeing of others.

 

[cupcake]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

Fair enough so it is fear of regression and considering the history I understand. In that case what would the DA have to do in order to win your vote?

 

[ngwe23]

How old are you?
And do you have actual concrete numbers of the DA Membership to make such a blanket statement?

The top DA executive is full of white men. That is something that is well know. Mmusi was fast tracked into that position for one reason: garner black votes.

 

[ellyally]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

Thats the ANC koolade talking.

Yes, there are white people in it, same as there are white people in ANC

 

[Cray]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

And you claim to not be a racist? It's an understandable fear given the past but for someone who accuses others of racism left and right you freely admit that your voting patterns are based on race.

 

[porchrat]

DA at its core is white. Memories of what happened the last time white people were in power are still fresh in my mind.

Ultimately then your fear is race-based and irrational. Not all white people are the same, we're not all to blame for Apartheid. We didn't all support Apartheid. Heck I was still learning to add when Apartheid ended. I doubt I could even have written the word if asked, let alone understood what it was.

I for example don't distrust black leadership. I just want a president that will do his job effectively. I don't care what colour he/she is. That is largely irrelevant to whether or not he/she can do the job.

If you irrationally fear giving white people control of anything because you think they'll abuse you and hurt you then frankly that sounds racist.

 

[zippy]

The top DA executive is full of white men. That is something that is well know. Mmusi was fast tracked into that position for one reason: garner black votes.

Do you hate white people ?

 

[ngwe23]

Fair enough so it is fear of regression and considering the history I understand. In that case what would the DA have to do in order to win your vote?

I will admit that they are on the right track. But then you get someone like DKB and you get the sense that DA at its core is still a white party. When Mmusi talks the right talk with regards to issues that affect black primarily such as racism and BEE there are rumblings from within the party. So...

 

[Cray]

Ultimately then your fear is race-based and irrational. Not all white people are the same, we're not all to blame for Apartheid. We didn't all support Apartheid. Heck I was still learning to add when Apartheid ended. I doubt I could even have written the word.

I for example don't distrust black leadership for South Africa. I just want a president that will do his job effectively. I don't care what colour he/she is.

+1, I just want a president with integrity and intelligence. If Thuli Madonsela was the ANC presedential candidate I would probably vote ANC.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The top DA executive is full of white men. That is something that is well know. Mmusi was fast tracked into that position for one reason: garner black votes.

So what if they're all white?

Btw, the executive council has at least 3 non-white members.

But that should be irrelevant if they're good at what they do.... and there is no indication that the DA is blocking non-whites from progressing to become part of the Executive.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I will admit that they are on the right track. But then you get someone like DKB and you get the sense that DA at its core is still a white party. When Mmusi talks the right talk with regards to issues that affect black primarily such as racism and BEE there are rumblings from within the party. So...

So you're going to bring up the DKB debacle again are you....

What did she personally do/say that you disagree with, and why do you disagree with the sanction she was handed?

What rumblings are you talking about? The party supports the idea of BEE etc, they at least have decent concrete implementation plans though.

 

[Xarog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#South_Africa

http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/2000-004.pdf

(1) Subject to the proviso in section 12, no person may publish, propagate, advocate
or communicate words based on one or more
of the prohibited grounds, against any
person, that could reasonably be construe
d to demonstrate a clear intention to-
(a)
be hurtful;
(b)
be harmful or to incite harm;
(c)
promote or propagate hatred.

12 Prohibition of dissemination and publication of information that
unfairly discriminates
No person may-
(a)
disseminate or broadcast any information;
(b)
publish or display any advertisement or notice, that could reasonably be construed or reasonably be understood to demonstrate a clear intention to unfairly discriminate against any person: Provided that bona fide engagement in artistic creativity, academic and scientific inquiry, fair and accurate reporting in the public interest or publication of any information, advertisement or notice in accordance with section 16 of the Constitution, is not precluded by this section.

http://www.constitutionalcourt.org.za/site/constitution/english-web/ch2.html

Freedom of expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes-
freedom of the press and other media;
freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
freedom of artistic creativity; and
academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.
The right in subsection (1) does not extend to-
propaganda for war;
incitement of imminent violence; or
advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.