The rise and disastrous fall of the kibbutz

[konfab]

In the 1990s, kibbutzim began employing outside managers and assigning wages according to skill levels. In a telling answer to the essay question ‘Under socialism, who will take out the garbage?’, they started hiring unskilled labour. Eventually, most kibbutzim privatised themselves, by giving each member entitlement to their dwellings and an individual share in their factory or land. Only a few still adhere to traditional communal ideals, usually the religious ones.

So even libertarian socialism failed. Big government socialists in other places had an obvious solution: force the slackers to work, stop the talented from migrating, silence vain women, imprison dissenters. So in the kibbutz, as in everywhere with socialism, the problem was not that brutal means corrupted beautiful ends. It was that those ends were not compatible with human nature in the first place. In the end, socialism can only ever be imposed on societies by force. With proudly socialist parties seeking power, in Britain and elsewhere, it’s a point worth remembering.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/11/the-rise-and-disastrous-fall-of-the-kibbutz/

 

[MidnightWizard]

One wonders -- did they also believe in -- "Free Love ?
In other words were the woman also -- "communal" ?

 

[Okty]

One of the ideologues behind Corbynism, Jon Lansman, founder of Momentum, lived on a kibbutz in his youth. He admired for long afterwards ‘the sense of community and the radicalism of it’, and has called his time in a kibbutz ‘a very politicising experience’. You can see the allure: living in a collective of about 450 people, working the land as one big family, from each according to his ability to each according to his needs

I think this could work if you had a small self sustaining village, but on a country scale not much.

There were other problems too. What happens when you can’t fire a slacker or reward someone productive? A scholar of kibbutz education, Yuval Dror, realised: ‘People like me who started as socialists concluded that you can work hard and get nothing while others don’t work hard. It is so unfair.’ Another kibbutz veteran concluded that his community was turning into a ‘paradise for parasites’.

Stupid question, reading the article it seems the word socialism should be replaced with communism? The above sure sounds like it, whereas with socialism, the less you contribute, you will get the bare minimum, but if you contribute more, you get to enjoy more benefits?

 

[CaptainObvious]

" the less you contribute, you will get the bare minimum, but if you contribute more, you get to enjoy more benefits "

Sounds like capitalism

 

[ponder]

Sounds like capitalism

With capitalism if you contribute nothing you get nothing.

 

[CaptainObvious]

With capitalism if you contribute nothing you get nothing.

So capitalism with freebies for the useless? No **** a system like that will be abused.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/11/the-rise-and-disastrous-fall-of-the-kibbutz/

Communities only exist through the imposition of force.

 

[flippakitten]

One wonders -- did they also believe in -- "Free Love ?
In other words were the woman also -- "communal" ?

what..?

If the women are "communal" it means the men are also "communal".

 

[Grubscrew]

what..?

If the women are "communal" it means the men are also "communal".

What? Men aren't possessions!

 

[flippakitten]

What? Men aren't possessions!

I am offended, I need a safe space. What if I associate as a possesion?

 

[Tokolotshe]

I am offended, I need a safe space. What if I associate as a possesion?

Pervs kibbutz female pics ...

Okay, nvm, there there. We'll find you an open spot on a kibbutz.

Hides in flippakitten's bags ...

 

[Spliffcat]

Who here went to Kibutz????

 

[Spliffcat]

Probably none of the keyboard warriors????

 

[MidnightWizard]

what..?

If the women are "communal" it means the men are also "communal".

Oblique reference to the way Karl Marx though about it ...

But you Communists would introduce community of women, screams the bourgeoisie in chorus.

Communist Manifesto

Liberty leading the People

Are they following the flag ?
Liberty ?
The Tits ?

 

[Vrotappel]

Paradise for Parasites.

Brilliant phrase, describes SA perfectly.

 

[Gordon_R]

Particularly relevant quotes for the Showerhead family dynasty:

the first sign of trouble in paradise was the revolt against collective child-rearing.

Family ties were seen as the nemesis of perfect collectivism.

Sideways comment at the Zuptas:

When everything was shared, people left the lights on day and night, and invited new acquaintances

Relevant for SA in general:

What happens when you can’t fire a slacker or reward someone productive?

 

[Spizz]

Who here went to Kibutz????

/raises hand