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MickeyD
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http://irr.org.za/reports-and-publi...-and-fall-of-eskom-2013-and-how-to-fix-it-now
Interesting article.
Interesting article.
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The rise and fall of Eskom and how to fix it now
- Thread starter MickeyD
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richjdavies
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There's another thread about it - that actually takes apart some of the 'facts'. There's lots of opinion there stated as fact.
In fact I'd go further and say pretty much every 'quote' in big type is a falsehood:
"Value for money in the REIPP is poor. For R100 billion, we could have bought far more electricity supply from more reliable nuclear power plants."
No we couldn't... if we could, we would have. It takes 20 years to get going on a nuclear plant -- from planning to finding good sites etc etc... Some of these solar plants were put up within months of being granted (the tendering process probably takes longer)
"There is no scientific support for a future rise in temperature of 2°C because of rising CO2. There is no reason at all to fear rising CO2."
Eeep -- now we know their true colours...
"It would probably be better if Eskom did all the necessary maintenance, which would mean more blackouts. "
Yawn... what does that even mean... "It would probably be better if" lots of things.
"Wind and solar power have a range of wonderful small-scale applications, but are useless for grid electricity."
You could say the same about pretty much ANY power source. "Nuclear has a wide range of small-scale applications from nuclear subs to space stations, but it's pretty much impossible to build new capacity in democratic countries..."
See we can all make stuff up!
In fact I'd go further and say pretty much every 'quote' in big type is a falsehood:
"Value for money in the REIPP is poor. For R100 billion, we could have bought far more electricity supply from more reliable nuclear power plants."
No we couldn't... if we could, we would have. It takes 20 years to get going on a nuclear plant -- from planning to finding good sites etc etc... Some of these solar plants were put up within months of being granted (the tendering process probably takes longer)
"There is no scientific support for a future rise in temperature of 2°C because of rising CO2. There is no reason at all to fear rising CO2."
Eeep -- now we know their true colours...
"It would probably be better if Eskom did all the necessary maintenance, which would mean more blackouts. "
Yawn... what does that even mean... "It would probably be better if" lots of things.
"Wind and solar power have a range of wonderful small-scale applications, but are useless for grid electricity."
You could say the same about pretty much ANY power source. "Nuclear has a wide range of small-scale applications from nuclear subs to space stations, but it's pretty much impossible to build new capacity in democratic countries..."
See we can all make stuff up!
f2wohf
Honorary Master
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- Apr 15, 2014
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Source ? The facts prove you completely wrong.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/China--Nuclear-Power/
http://www.nei.org/Issues-Policy/New-Nuclear-Energy-Facilities/Building-New-Nuclear-Facilities
In addition, their assertion is totally right, the REIPP tariffs are above Eskom's selling price which makes no economical sense and is not even subsidised by the Government but by Eskom.
Little tip: 165c/kWh is close to three times Eskom's selling price to the municipalities.
http://www.esi-africa.com/financial-closure-for-round-2-reippp-in-south-africa/
Last edited:
richjdavies
Expert Member
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Well tell me then... where's all this nuclear plant. It's not like they haven't been trying!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_energy_in_South_Africa
"In 2008 Max Lee, CEO of Eskom, announced Eskom plans to build 20 GW of nuclear power by 2025; the first station with a capacity of between 3,300 and 4,000 MW could be completed by 2017.[6] However the investment decision to go ahead with this was not made.[2]"
- So the plan was to build 4000MW in 9 years; it's now 7 years later and 0 has been built.
Koeburg is small (2 x 900MW) and took 8 years to build -- that's from START of Construction to Commissioning. Before START of construction there was years of planning and scheduling, tending, environmental plans etc (ok, maybe they didn't need to do so much of that back then!)
Your comment is known as selection bias -- you're only counting the ones that WERE built. Not all the ones that weren't. I'd probably go as far as saying the median nuclear plant never gets built... just ask Iran!
I agree with you on the expense side of things. REIPP 3 prices are right here:
http://www.ee.co.za/wp-content/uploads/legacy/Energize_2013/03_iDn_summary-of-reippp.pdf
But you have to compare eggs with eggs --> the fully-indexed price is probably what you should compare with ==> c. 70c/kWh for wind. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Ok Solar is much closer to R1.00.
Wonder when they'll release the Window-4 prices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_energy_in_South_Africa
"In 2008 Max Lee, CEO of Eskom, announced Eskom plans to build 20 GW of nuclear power by 2025; the first station with a capacity of between 3,300 and 4,000 MW could be completed by 2017.[6] However the investment decision to go ahead with this was not made.[2]"
- So the plan was to build 4000MW in 9 years; it's now 7 years later and 0 has been built.
Koeburg is small (2 x 900MW) and took 8 years to build -- that's from START of Construction to Commissioning. Before START of construction there was years of planning and scheduling, tending, environmental plans etc (ok, maybe they didn't need to do so much of that back then!)
Your comment is known as selection bias -- you're only counting the ones that WERE built. Not all the ones that weren't. I'd probably go as far as saying the median nuclear plant never gets built... just ask Iran!
I agree with you on the expense side of things. REIPP 3 prices are right here:
http://www.ee.co.za/wp-content/uploads/legacy/Energize_2013/03_iDn_summary-of-reippp.pdf
But you have to compare eggs with eggs --> the fully-indexed price is probably what you should compare with ==> c. 70c/kWh for wind. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Ok Solar is much closer to R1.00.
Wonder when they'll release the Window-4 prices.