The risk of still running Windows XP

biometrics

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Every OS ever in the history of mankind will have issues reported until the day it's uninstalled from the last device. I have to use Win7 from time to time and still have the ancient Windows Update, explorer crashing, etc errors that MS never managed to eliminate over the course of its lifetime.

I agree. But my rule with Microsoft software has served me well. I'll look at Win 10 later this year or next.
 

supersunbird

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Every OS ever in the history of mankind will have issues reported until the day it's uninstalled from the last device. I have to use Win7 from time to time and still have the ancient Windows Update, explorer crashing, etc errors that MS never managed to eliminate over the course of its lifetime.

Must be on a bad hardware or have bad drivers.
 

elvis_presley

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What can Win10 do that Win7 can't, for the average user?

Better use of resources, better security, far superior for large and multi-monitor use, and from tip to toe a thousand little things that have been improved.

I think like many things in life, it's not so easy to notice going forward from win7 to win10, but if you've used win10 for a while and have to go back and work on win7 for some reason, you genuinely feel how sluggish and unstable it is, and you miss all the little things you've come to take for granted in win10.
 

elvis_presley

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Must be on a bad hardware or have bad drivers.

Nope. Windows Update never worked 100%, they redid it for Win8 and it's much better now. You never see the obscure 1x012912012 errors any more. Whenever you saw that, you died a little inside and knew there's your evening gone.

Explorer has always been a bit wobbly when you hammer it, since the Vista days. They've got that pretty sorted now.
 

elvis_presley

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You can Ctrl-V on the command line. ;)

Haha yes... with all the talk of win8 "forcing metro" on users (It never did, that was just ill-informed clickbait), people don't realize that Win10 is a FAR better power user OS than Windows 7 ever was.

The WindowsKey-X menu alone is almost worth the upgrade from Win7 :)
 
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supersunbird

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Haha yes... with all the talk of win8 "forcing metro" on user (It never did, that was just ill-informed clickbait), people don't realize that Win10 is a FAR better power user OS than Windows 7 ever was.

It was forced on 8, 8.1 much better. You had to try to right click on some almost imaginary area on the bottom left corner to get at menus or try voodoo to get some bar to appear on the right.

I still consider 10 unpolished. 8.1 is good. Win 7 is great (except for windows updates on a fresh install SP1).
 

Sollie

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Haha yes... with all the talk of win8 "forcing metro" on users (It never did, that was just ill-informed clickbait), people don't realize that Win10 is a FAR better power user OS than Windows 7 ever was.

The WindowsKey-X menu alone is almost worth the upgrade from Win7 :)

Win 8 / 8.1 is pretty decent. Just needs Firefox, Thunderbird and Classic Start Menu :)
 

elvis_presley

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It was forced on 8, 8.1 much better. You had to try to right click on some almost imaginary area on the bottom left corner to get at menus or try voodoo to get some bar to appear on the right.

You pressed the windows key to get to the desktop. If for some reason the metro launcher came up, you pressed the window key. That's all I ever had to tell any Win8 user, and it was enough training.


I still consider 10 unpolished. 8.1 is good. Win 7 is great (except for windows updates on a fresh install SP1).

I consider it the exact opposite. Win7 seems unpolished if you look back - but that's not surprising; Vista looked unpolished next to Win7, and XP just looks like a relic from a bygone era compared to either!
 

sajunky

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Because privacy / security, less control over certain components, graphics driver issues, etc
Microsoft has adopted money generating schemes from Apple, but difference is that Apple OS/iOS releases are very stable, but Microsoft has shifted burden of debugging product on users, calling it not a product, but service. Extensive downloads, restricting users from many previously available options - most importantly - from disabling automatic downloads are also borrowed from Apple. What works for Apple doesn't have to work fo Microsoft. Hardware manufacturers say "fix this *****$% Windows or you are going down". Alternatives are coming from Google.
 

elvis_presley

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Microsoft has adopted money generating schemes from Apple, but difference is that Apple OS/iOS releases are very stable, but Microsoft has shifted burden of debugging product on users, calling it not a product, but service. Extensive downloads, restricting users from many previously available options - most importantly - from disabling automatic downloads are also borrowed from Apple. What works for Apple doesn't have to work fo Microsoft. Hardware manufacturers say "fix this *****$% Windows or you are going down". Alternatives are coming from Google.

To their credit, MS have walked back on almost everything you have mentioned, but the damage is done and most uninformed users still think these problems persist.
 

CataclysmZA

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One of them for me is that there's a hardlinked error recovery system inside Windows that will reboot the system when one of the critical servies that universal apps rely on to launch fails (like the Windows store). I had this recently on my netbook. When the service failed, Windows told me that it was shutting down and there wasn't anything I could really do to stop it.

CY_M40lWAAArPeu.png


I couldn't cancel this shutdown, nor could I negate it in the command line or in powershell. Its one example of things that Microsoft introduced into Windows to users without giving them alternatives (like putting different options inside Settings and Control Panel, they've literally had years to fix this problem). Paul will never mention these things because he's not the type to nitpick over issues that drive other people nuts. He also seemed to go rather meek when they had Chris Caposella on the TWIT show.

Microsoft also regularly craps out their in-house apps for anyone who's on the fast ring, and it makes little sense for them to do so. For about two months after launching the 10240 build, which is what also shipped to ODM partners, Mail and People wouldn't link together and Mail couldn't sync with any mail server. Build 11099 released last week causes games to crash when changing the resolution or some graphical options because of changes made to the graphics stack by Microsoft.

They also made another change to the wireless network stack that requires downloading updated drivers after you update to 11099 - the fun part is that unless some ultrabook or Surface owners have another computer or a USB Ethernet adapter, they won't be able to get online because their Wi-Fi doesn't work properly. Windows Update isn't smart enough to download these updates ahead of time either.

I like the ambitions that Microsoft has with Windows 10, but there are a lot of things that could be better.

You pressed the windows key to get to the desktop. If for some reason the metro launcher came up, you pressed the window key. That's all I ever had to tell any Win8 user, and it was enough training.

Prior to Windows 8.1, you had to press Win+D to get to the desktop from the Metro start menu. This really confused people who had unpinned the Desktop tile.

To their credit, MS have walked back on almost everything you have mentioned, but the damage is done and most uninformed users still think these problems persist.

IMO, they keep on shooting themselves in the foot, both by not being forward about certain changes that make no sense (not detailing what an update actually does, for example), not being communicative when it's necessary (the removing the latest build furore, ostensibly because it broke the privacy settings flags, letting rumors run rampant for a week), and chasing people away by taking away good features because, according to the philosophies behind planned obsolescence, this makes perfectly good business sense to drive consumer demand (but it only works if you return that feature to a later version of your product in the future. See: XP Mode in Windows 7, removing Windows Photo Viewer in Windows 10).

It doesn't help that Satya is upending the current structure and trying to change the company's ethos from one of fear and loathing to something more harmonious and focused on creating technologies for the internet and other mobile platforms, not computers. He's good for the company, but the period that he finds himself in when he's at the helm is also its most turbulent, and he's not the right fit for what the company should be doing now, which at this moment is not treating its customers like children or information gold mines. They are customers, not users.

Facebook has users. Google has users. Microsoft and Apple have customers who pay for their software through purchasing devices or getting the license themselves, and they should treat them as such.
 

Pho3nix

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One of them for me is that there's a hardlinked error recovery system inside Windows that will reboot the system when one of the critical servies that universal apps rely on to launch fails (like the Windows store). I had this recently on my netbook. When the service failed, Windows told me that it was shutting down and there wasn't anything I could really do to stop it.

CY_M40lWAAArPeu.png


I couldn't cancel this shutdown, nor could I negate it in the command line or in powershell. Its one example of things that Microsoft introduced into Windows to users without giving them alternatives (like putting different options inside Settings and Control Panel, they've literally had years to fix this problem). Paul will never mention these things because he's not the type to nitpick over issues that drive other people nuts. He also seemed to go rather meek when they had Chris Caposella on the TWIT show.

Microsoft also regularly craps out their in-house apps for anyone who's on the fast ring, and it makes little sense for them to do so. For about two months after launching the 10240 build, which is what also shipped to ODM partners, Mail and People wouldn't link together and Mail couldn't sync with any mail server. Build 11099 released last week causes games to crash when changing the resolution or some graphical options because of changes made to the graphics stack by Microsoft.

They also made another change to the wireless network stack that requires downloading updated drivers after you update to 11099 - the fun part is that unless some ultrabook or Surface owners have another computer or a USB Ethernet adapter, they won't be able to get online because their Wi-Fi doesn't work properly. Windows Update isn't smart enough to download these updates ahead of time either.

I like the ambitions that Microsoft has with Windows 10, but there are a lot of things that could be better.



Prior to Windows 8.1, you had to press Win+D to get to the desktop from the Metro start menu. This really confused people who had unpinned the Desktop tile.



IMO, they keep on shooting themselves in the foot, both by not being forward about certain changes that make no sense (not detailing what an update actually does, for example), not being communicative when it's necessary (the removing the latest build furore, ostensibly because it broke the privacy settings flags, letting rumors run rampant for a week), and chasing people away by taking away good features because, according to the philosophies behind planned obsolescence, this makes perfectly good business sense to drive consumer demand (but it only works if you return that feature to a later version of your product in the future. See: XP Mode in Windows 7, removing Windows Photo Viewer in Windows 10).

It doesn't help that Satya is upending the current structure and trying to change the company's ethos from one of fear and loathing to something more harmonious and focused on creating technologies for the internet and other mobile platforms, not computers. He's good for the company, but the period that he finds himself in when he's at the helm is also its most turbulent, and he's not the right fit for what the company should be doing now, which at this moment is not treating its customers like children or information gold mines. They are customers, not users.

Facebook has users. Google has users. Microsoft and Apple have customers who pay for their software through purchasing devices or getting the license themselves, and they should treat them as such.

Stopped reading when you mentioned builds..
If you are in the preview program you signed up for things to break.
They even mentioned that the Fast Ring builds will be coming sooner as they are closer to the builds being run internally.

Have 4 Win10 machines and 2 on Windows 7.

Each have their problems but singling one out because you've become used to the bill**** of one isn't being open minded.

Wanna know what the latest builds have? Read the insider app when it has updates. They post snippets of whaha fixed and broken and go into more detail on the actual MS pages of you want.

Read their last 10 posts to find out their current direction. Stop reading about this from Engadget.
 

CataclysmZA

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Stopped reading when you mentioned builds..
If you are in the preview program you signed up for things to break.
They even mentioned that the Fast Ring builds will be coming sooner as they are closer to the builds being run internally.

Sure, I know the risks of running beta software for testing purposes, which is why I'm running that on my netbook. But for Microsoft to actively push out a build that has broken support for things that the previous build had doesn't seem logical.

When you see the notification that a new build is ready for installation, it doesn't tell you about the changes or known issues inside the Settings panel. The changes to the graphics and wireless stacks will filter down to the consumer channel eventually, and the requisite hardware driver updates might not arrive on time - will people know what to do and how to fix it when their machine auto-installs these updates?

Have 4 Win10 machines and 2 on Windows 7.

Each have their problems but singling one out because you've become used to the bill**** of one isn't being open minded.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm quite open-minded when it comes to using different software platforms.

Read their last 10 posts to find out their current direction. Stop reading about this from Engadget.

Ha ha. Sure. OK. That's clearly where I get my Windows news from.
 

backstreetboy

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Sure, I know the risks of running beta software for testing purposes, which is why I'm running that on my netbook. But for Microsoft to actively push out a build that has broken support for things that the previous build had doesn't seem logical.

When you see the notification that a new build is ready for installation, it doesn't tell you about the changes or known issues inside the Settings panel. The changes to the graphics and wireless stacks will filter down to the consumer channel eventually - will people know what to do and how to fix it when their machine auto-installs these updates?



I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm quite open-minded when it comes to using different software platforms.



Ha ha. Sure. OK. That's clearly where I get my Windows news from.
If you run the daily builds from Ubuntu do you expect things to never break? They are changing the core of Windows and adding things sure that means other things can break. You're afterall in the Fast track. The slow track is still on RTM. Also that's why they have these channels so the Graphics and Wireless issues will not filter down to customer level. AFAIK that Facebook UWP app is also beta.
 

CataclysmZA

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If you run the daily builds from Ubuntu do you expect things to never break? They are changing the core of Windows and adding things sure that means other things can break. You're afterall in the Fast track. The slow track is still on RTM. Also that's why they have these channels so the Graphics and Wireless issues will not filter down to customer level. AFAIK that Facebook UWP app is also beta.

I'd never actually run daily builds of any OS, actually. I'd never even tell anyone that it's OK to do it, because there's a good chance that something breaks in an unrecoverable way and they end up needing to backup and reformat. Running nightly builds of Firefox is perfectly OK, because that's just a standalone web browser. Updating to a new OS version roughly every month? I don't think I could be paid to do that, it just makes no sense.

I'm also on the fast ring for the netbook only so that I can see how Edge extensions work when they land sometime in the next two months (I'll drop back to slow for battery life testing for a feature article). My personal machine is on the stable channel, it doesn't even receive slow ring updates. I really don't feel like trading playing with new features for my machine's stability.

I know why it exists as an option and why Microsoft worked hard on getting telemetry data working properly so that they could use fast and slow ring users for data analysis, which is why it's confusing when they release a beta build that clearly should have been held back for something else while they fix bugs that would hamper their efforts to collect more telemetry data.
 
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