The SA Politics Thread Part 2

[PrimeSteak]

He seems to be firmly in the DA camp again.

I still don't get how you get there?

I mean the guy has said that he would support either VF+/ACDP and that the DA is "too left" on certain topics. Surely, if he was such a DA supporter he wouldn't say that.

 

[TheChamp]

Since working with the reason why said muni is destroyed is of course a big brain move.

I haven't watched that part of the interview yet.

I remember from others, it was said that they'll consider coalescing with ANC split-offs (something like COPE and so on, or if a Rama faction breaks away), but not with ANC prime.

But their preference is to form a UF coalition.

I get that it is a kind of a joke because it's in italic but I don't get it, anyway...

 

[PrimeSteak]

I find it funny though.

Those on the left scream about how "Trump right-wing" the DA is now.

Yet okes like Cabanac and the IRR who are on the right and apparently the isandla semfene behind the DA says the DA is "too left" for them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585912829218938881

 

[R13...]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587120431986794496

This one lacks self awareness. She has the selective amnesia not to remember that she joined the ANC and co. for power (at the cost of the residents of the city). She's also proved rather incompetent at such a simple role.

 

[Priapus]

At what part does he talk about that? (Haven't finished the interview yet).

There I can agree. If it's 49%, they'll just get GOOD and Al Jama-ah to coalesce.

Second last segment. The video is broken up - and indexed, so you can just skip straight to it.

So just catch me up quickly, I once suggested that the DA could eliminate the EFF problem by working with the ANC in the metros, that was clearly not well received and it was even suggested that I am giving room for the ANC to come in through the back door, you were part of those who were totally not keen on the idea.

So how is it now that the same thing make sense when it said by John and he is suggesting for national government as a way to eliminate the EFF? What is the difference in doing that at national compared to local government?

You seem rather open to the idea now compared to when I was suggesting it?

Yes, I was defensive of the idea of an ANC/DA coalition, you're correct. However, listening to John and their reasoning if they were to do it, makes more sense to me now than when you brought it up.

I'm open to the idea if it means choosing between ANC/DA or ANC/EFF. I'll take the former.

And perhaps my distain for the ANC made me react with "**** no" when you brought it up and not see the bigger picture - SA as a whole and not how I feel about a certain political party.

 

[Priapus]

This one lacks self awareness. She has the selective amnesia not to remember that she joined the ANC and co. for power (at the cost of the residents of the city). She's also proved rather incompetent at such a simple role.

Oh all that she knows. She just hopes people forget that part...

 

[PrimeSteak]

I get that it is a kind of a joke because it's in italic but I don't get it, anyway...

Let me break it down.

Since working with the ANC, who is most likely the reason for destroying a metro/muni, is such a smart move...

 

[TheChamp]

Let me break it down.

Since working with the ANC, who is most likely the reason for destroying a metro/muni, is such a smart move...

But how does that make sense to you?

They can't work with the ANC at local level because the ANC is the reason the municipality is destroyed? Fair enough.

They will work with the ANC at National level because things are somehow different there and the destruction was only limited to municipal level?

 

[PrimeSteak]

Second last segment. The video is broken up - and indexed, so you can just skip straight to it.



Yes, I was defensive of the idea of an ANC/DA coalition, you're correct. However, listening to John and their reasoning if they were to do it, makes more sense to me now than when you brought it up.

I'm open to the idea if it means choosing between ANC/DA or ANC/EFF. I'll take the former.

And perhaps my distain for the ANC made me react with "**** no" when you brought it up and not see the bigger picture - SA as a whole and not how I feel about a certain political party.

Ok, so he mentions the ANC faction thing I talked about. And he says that they'll only consider an ANC coalition and depends on the ANC's setup by then (and let's be honest the ANC wouldn't have changed by 2024).

But I get what he says, that ANC/EFF would be the bad ending for SA.

 

[PrimeSteak]

They can't work with the ANC at local level because the ANC is the reason the municipality is destroyed? Fair enough.

They will work with the ANC at National level because things are somehow different there and the destruction was only limited to municipal level?

In all honesty, I think the ANC/DA coalition you and others like News24 desperately want will only happen as a last resort if there's a real chance for an ANC/EFF coalition to come to power (depending on the results).

And personally, I don't think I'd like such a thing, although it would be preferable to ANC/EFF.

 

[PrimeSteak]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587345134319960065

 

[PrimeSteak]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587345134319960065

Second, because Western Cape devolution will set an important precedent for any other provinces and metros able to improve on national government delivery. If a DA-led coalition runs Gauteng after the national and provincial elections in 2024, then Western Cape devolution will clear the path for Gauteng devolution too. KZN also looks likely to be shot of the ANC after 2024. Together, these three provinces account for two-thirds of South Africa's economy.

This confirms what I've been saying this whole time about the tactic regarding devolution.

Implement first in WC, create successful systems. And then devolution will be implemented elsewhere.

 

[PrimeSteak]

Big parties with coalitions need to exercise greater humility - Corné Mulder

One year on, the Democratic Alliance (DA) is struggling to hold on to power in Gauteng’s three metros of Ekurhuleni, Tshwane and Johannesburg.

ewn.co.za

@R13... The Mulder interview you mentioned.

 

[PrimeSteak]

'I'm not going to quit' - Joburg Mayor Mpho Phalatse

She says she will only leave office if due processes to table a motion of no confidence against her are adequately followed.

ewn.co.za

 

[TheChamp]

Second last segment. The video is broken up - and indexed, so you can just skip straight to it.



Yes, I was defensive of the idea of an ANC/DA coalition, you're correct. However, listening to John and their reasoning if they were to do it, makes more sense to me now than when you brought it up.

I'm open to the idea if it means choosing between ANC/DA or ANC/EFF. I'll take the former.

And perhaps my distain for the ANC made me react with "**** no" when you brought it up and not see the bigger picture - SA as a whole and not how I feel about a certain political party.

Okay, so as things are now and with the state you are in now regarding your acceptance levels of an ANC/DA relationship, what is your view regarding the metros as far as the EFF factor is concerned?

The EFF worked with the ANC to remove the Joburg Mayor and the speaker, so that is pretty much an example of the ANC/EFF working together, would you be open to the DA and ANC striking a deal to eliminate the EFF in Joburg? Or is this not yet the time and you prefer the DA to being the opposition while working on other plans to get power back?

*Yes I know the mayor is back, but let's ignore that for a minute and work on the assumption that we now have an ANC/EFF united front in Joburg.

 

[TheChamp]

In all honesty, I think the ANC/DA coalition you and others like News24 desperately want will only happen as a last resort if there's a real chance for an ANC/EFF coalition to come to power (depending on the results).

And personally, I don't think I'd like such a thing, although it would be preferable to ANC/EFF.

Oh? So it is now a DA/ANC I desperately want? What gave you the idea that I am desperate for it? I merely made a suggestion to hear what others think, in the same logic does it now mean Steenhuisen is desperate for an ANC/DA coalition or does your logic only apply to me ad News24?

 

[PrimeSteak]

Helen Zille strikes pact with IFP to help crush ANC rule in KwaZulu-Natal | News24

The ANC's final thread of power in KwaZulu-Natal is under threat as the DA and IFP have teamed up to erase the final vestiges of power the party battles to hold on to.

www.news24.com

Paywalled.

 

[Priapus]

Okay, so as things are now and with the state you are in now regarding your acceptance levels of an ANC/DA relationship, what is your view regarding the metros as far as the EFF factor is concerned?

The EFF worked with the ANC to remove the Joburg Mayor and the speaker, so that is pretty much an example of the ANC/EFF working together, would you be open to the DA and ANC striking a deal to eliminate the EFF in Joburg? Or is this not yet the time and you prefer the DA to being the opposition while working on other plans to get power back?

*Yes I know the mayor is back, but let's ignore that for a minute and work on the assumption that we now have an ANC/EFF united front in Joburg.

You raise a fair argument.

At muni level, I'd prefer the DA to sit in opposition than to get into bed with ANC. There, the damage is limited and the EFF cannot cause anything more than just drama and poor service delivery - which we have already and used to it.

At a national level, as I said, if the choice is the ANC/DA vs ANC/EFF - I'll accept the former, because the alternative would be disastrous for the country.

And the DA would only consider the coalition, if it means keeping the EFF out of national level. If the EFF threat is not there, they would not coalesce with the ANC.

There, I am in agreement with them and if the EFF threat is there - they should work something out with the ANC.

As for the CoJ mayor, happy to put that aside, because its a very temp thing whatever is going on - we know another MONC is on the way.

 

[Priapus]

Helen Zille strikes pact with IFP to help crush ANC rule in KwaZulu-Natal | News24

The ANC's final thread of power in KwaZulu-Natal is under threat as the DA and IFP have teamed up to erase the final vestiges of power the party battles to hold on to.

www.news24.com

Paywalled.

A pact? So.. nothing formal then.

Let's hope the pact holds up, in 18 months time.

 

[PrimeSteak]

You raise a fair argument.

At muni level, I'd prefer the DA to sit in opposition than to get into bed with ANC. There, the damage is limited and the EFF cannot cause anything more than just drama and poor service delivery - which we have already and used to it.

At a national level, as I said, if the choice is the ANC/DA vs ANC/EFF - I'll accept the former, because the alternative would be disastrous for the country.

And the DA would only consider the coalition, if it means keeping the EFF out of national level. If the EFF threat is not there, they would not coalesce with the ANC.

There, I am in agreement with them and if the EFF threat is there - they should work something out with the ANC.

As for the CoJ mayor, happy to put that aside, because its a very temp thing whatever is going on - we know another MONC is on the way.

This.