The UCT - Cecil John Rhodes Statue Thread

[ToxicBunny]

you really are obtuse aren't you?

Do you honestly think that the history that was taught during apartheid was accurate and unbiased? It didn't leave anything out? It didn't idolize some and demonize others?
If you believe that then I find it hard to believe you were even alive during apartheid or you would remember that everything was strictly controlled, censored and regulated to fit in with apartheid doctrine.

Tell me about the great black leaders you learned about at school during your history lessons. Which ones?
Tell me about how you studied the great African civilizations and empires that have existed.
Were you taught about the military genius of Shaka and the social innovations he introduced?
Did you learn about the meaningful contributions made by Africa to world history?
Did you learn about the African innovations in technology, government, social structure, art, and literature?


For example...

And tell me why you call apartheid 'Apaathate'

Why must we educate you on a history that you seem completely ignorant of, but feel the need to challenge others on?

We studied the great African civilisations, we were taught about the military genius of Shaka and his contributions.. etc etc... Because you weren't doesn't mean we weren't either.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yes, because the apartheid government never banned books at all did they?

http://www.theliteraturepolice.com/

And your point?

 

[Sherbang]

And your point?

Having taught under "Apartheid" rules, I was not forced to teach under their rules at all. There were several textbooks available, and believe it or not, we ( as teachers) could actually visit libraries and do our own research. I spent hundreds of hours buried in research before I entered a classroom, and nobody ever stopped me from teaching what I had learnt. The textbooks were occasionally referred to, simply for fill in material.

You can't study textbooks that aren't there because they were banned.
I bet the textbooks were all written by white Europeans too, with all the biases and prejudices of the time.

 

[Sherbang]

Why must we educate you on a history that you seem completely ignorant of, but feel the need to challenge others on?

We studied the great African civilisations, we were taught about the military genius of Shaka and his contributions.. etc etc... Because you weren't doesn't mean we weren't either.

Well then you didn't go to school during apartheid south africa

 

[etienne_marais]

You can't study textbooks that aren't there because they were banned.
I bet the textbooks were all written by white Europeans too, with all the biases and prejudices of the time.

The textbooks were actually factual and unbiased.

 

[ToxicBunny]

You can't study textbooks that aren't there because they were banned.
I bet the textbooks were all written by white Europeans too, with all the biases and prejudices of the time.

Hmmm, yes you may have a point...

Oh wait, no, one of my history textbooks was written by my grandfather, who was a very close friend of Mangosuthu Buthelezi, and a world renowned expert on the Anglo/Zulu War and Anglo/Boer War.

Do you feel like trying your little high and mighty thing again, because you're not doing very well at this.

Well then you didn't go to school during apartheid south africa

Yes I did... but I had a decent history teacher who wanted to teach us the history as it happened.

 

[etienne_marais]

Well then you didn't go to school during apartheid south africa

Where did you attend school b.t.w. ?

 

[Nerfherder]

you really are obtuse aren't you?

Do you honestly think that the history that was taught during apartheid was accurate and unbiased? It didn't leave anything out? It didn't idolize some and demonize others?
If you believe that then I find it hard to believe you were even alive during apartheid or you would remember that everything was strictly controlled, censored and regulated to fit in with apartheid doctrine.

Tell me about the great black leaders you learned about at school during your history lessons. Which ones?
Tell me about how you studied the great African civilizations and empires that have existed.
Were you taught about the military genius of Shaka and the social innovations he introduced?
Did you learn about the meaningful contributions made by Africa to world history?
Did you learn about the African innovations in technology, government, social structure, art, and literature?

I was at a school between 86 and 99, the syllabus changed quite a lot during that time. its also been 16 years since I left school and 20-24 years since things have changed.... that is a lot of people who learnt some vastly changing history.

Tell me about the great black leaders you learned about at school during your history lessons. Which ones?

You mean the post colonials who took over 1969-1987 that we learnt about in matric ?

Tell me about how you studied the great African civilizations and empires that have existed.

Nubians, Egyptians, Zimbabweans.... who else ?

Were you taught about the military genius of Shaka and the social innovations he introduced?

Yep... but you know military genius just means good at killing people ?

Did you learn about the meaningful contributions made by Africa to world history?
Did you learn about the African innovations in technology, government, social structure, art, and literature?

Why don't you educate us ?

 

[konfab]

And anti-Rhodes hysteria reaches new heights, as memorials to people who died in wars fought after his death are defaced...

View attachment 204236

This is how I feel about this.

 

[Solarion]

And anti-Rhodes hysteria reaches new heights, as memorials to people who died in wars fought after his death are defaced...

View attachment 204236

Anybody who does this is either:

A) Deliberately ignorant
B) Vandal
C) Retarded

I did take these students slightly seriously until this.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Anybody who does this is either:

A) Deliberately ignorant
B) Vandal
C) Retarded

I did take these students slightly seriously until this.

I would suggest that they are all 3....

 

[Mila]

Nou is julle net faked up.
Lock them up.

 

[Sherbang]

The textbooks were actually factual and unbiased.

Really?
Just out of interest, how many of you were taught that blacks and whites arrived in the area we know as South Africa around the the same time? We were taught this 'fact' at school and obviously many others were too because I've seen this claim made on myBB many many times - oh there were no black people in South Africa when the whites arrived, and things like that. Well, that's an example of how apartheid distorted history.

How many of you were taught about Great Zimbabwe and Mapungubwe, about how that civilization had developed a sophisticated mining and trading culture by the 13th century, more than 400 years before Europeans arrived? Well, that's an example of how apartheid left out history.

How many of you were taught that black Africans were hunter gatherers and that Europeans brought farming and agriculture to Southern Africa. Again I've seen this claim made on myBB many many times, so clearly I wasn't the only one who received this 'education'. Well, that's an example of how apartheid distorted history.

 

[Fazda]

You can't study textbooks that aren't there because they were banned.
I bet the textbooks were all written by white Europeans too, with all the biases and prejudices of the time.

Kee rist, you really don't know what you are talking about do you!

What utter cr@p. Of course some books were banned, however, that did not stop those of us who wanted to, from finding out what we needed to. You alluded to no text books because books were banned? Are you crazy, or simply clueless?

You are apparently too young to have been alive at the time, so might I suggest you get your nose out of Google for a while and speak to people who actually lived at the time.

 

[Sherbang]

Kee rist, you really don't know what you are talking about do you!

What utter cr@p. Of course some books were banned, however, that did not stop those of us who wanted to, from finding out what we needed to. You alluded to no text books because books were banned? Are you crazy, or simply clueless?

You are apparently too young to have been alive at the time, so might I suggest you get your nose out of Google for a while and speak to people who actually lived at the time.

I'm talking about official apartheid education, not the illegal teaching of banned books that you apparently resorted too. I never said no textbooks, but textbooks that were written specifically to distort history. You may have been a teacher during apartheid, I was a scholar, so yes, I actually lived at the time which is why I can't believe people have such short memories about what life was like then.

 

[Fazda]

I'm talking about official apartheid education, not the illegal teaching of banned books that you apparently resorted too. I never said no textbooks, but textbooks that were written specifically to distort history. You may have been a teacher during apartheid, I was a scholar, so yes, I actually lived at the time which is why I can't believe people have such short memories about what life was like then.

I simply did research on original materials that can be found in decent libraries ( in my case it was PMB), looked at the syllabus, and then created my own notes - nothing illegal or anti apartheid about that at all.

I cannot believe that people's memories can distort something to the extent that you just have!

 

[ToxicBunny]

So Sherbang... are you going to respond to my post or ignore it since you got schooled so badly.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Just out of interest, how many of you were taught that blacks and whites arrived in the area we know as South Africa around the the same time?

That isn’t how it was taught. We learned about the Portuguese sailors and their trade with the natives on the southern coastal regions. Then we learned about Jan van Riebeeck and Cape Colony (not SA). The Khoikhoi, Bushmen etc. The Xhosa and the San, which partly amalgamated. The Trek, the Zulu’s etc. Never is it mentioned when the Bantu peoples settled in their homelands or other regions. However the Xhosa peoples was dated back to their settlement above the Fish River with science to a near exact date as established by the historians, this was mainly determined by their agricultural methods in regard with planting sorghum. I don’t need to elaborate on the Anglo-Boer wars, the British, the Voortrekkers etc, but I do remember that we touched minor topics on the Ndebele people.

How many of you were taught about Great Zimbabwe and Mapungubwe, about how that civilization had developed a sophisticated mining and trading culture by the 13th century, more than 400 years before Europeans arrived? Well, that's an example of how apartheid left out history.

No, we didn't learn anything in this regard. It is known that the region in mention had entered the Iron Age. Trade with the Middle East and Asia was dated back to the 11th century, guess what the largest commodity was?

It was indicative that the Shona peoples thrived during that time, and later clashed with the Nguni (and later Ndebele) which still continues today. The very same with the Ndebele and Zulu Kingdom which once was the Nguni, the Ndebele was Zulu.

How many of you were taught that black Africans were hunter gatherers and that Europeans brought farming and agriculture to Southern Africa. Again I've seen this claim made on myBB many many times, so clearly I wasn't the only one who received this 'education'. Well, that's an example of how apartheid distorted history.

One point here in concern, agriculture date back to the early days. The colonialists brought new methods to SA, hunter gathering is one method utilised by all peoples. I mentioned the Xhosa people, actually to bring up a valid point, Sorghum didn’t grow below the Fish River. People in their masses cannot migrate to locations where they cannot survive, should they had known how to utilise certain land then they would had been more widespread, the colonialists didn't had these issues due to their methods, knowledge, technique and equipment.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I'm talking about official apartheid education, not the illegal teaching of banned books that you apparently resorted too. I never said no textbooks, but textbooks that were written specifically to distort history. You may have been a teacher during apartheid, I was a scholar, so yes, I actually lived at the time which is why I can't believe people have such short memories about what life was like then.

I think you have no memory of that time, because nobody I've spoken to today seems to have gone through the kind of education you did.

 

[konfab]

That isn’t how it was taught. We learned about the Portuguese sailors and their trade with the natives on the southern coastal regions. Then we learned about Jan van Riebeeck and Cape Colony (not SA). The Khoikhoi, Bushmen etc. The Xhosa and the San, which partly amalgamated. The Trek, the Zulu’s etc. Never is it mentioned when the Bantu peoples settled in their homelands or other regions. However the Xhosa peoples was dated back to their settlement above the Fish River with science to a near exact date as established by the historians, this was mainly determined by their agricultural methods in regard with planting sorghum. I don’t need to elaborate on the Anglo-Boer wars, the British, the Voortrekkers etc, but I do remember that we touched minor topics on the Ndebele people.



No, we didn't learn anything in this regard. It is known that the region in mention had entered the Iron Age. Trade with the Middle East and Asia was dated back to the 11th century, guess what the largest commodity was?

It was indicative that the Shona peoples thrived during that time, and later clashed with the Nguni (and later Ndebele) which still continues today. The very same with the Ndebele and Zulu Kingdom which once was the Nguni, the Ndebele was Zulu.



One point here in concern, agriculture date back to the early days. The colonialists brought new methods to SA, hunter gathering is one method utilised by all peoples. I mentioned the Xhosa people, actually to bring up a valid point, Sorghum didn’t grow below the Fish River. People in their masses cannot migrate to locations where they cannot survive, should they had known how to utilise certain land then they would had been more widespread, the colonialists didn't had these issues due to their methods, knowledge, technique and equipment.

Stop it, you are being too interesting.