The wealth of Muslims

[Splinter]

^This. Many people don't get this. MUSLIMS make mistakes. Not everyone follows the religion in every single aspect. We are bound to make mistakes.

Again, I believe that is a complete cop-out. A "mistake" is eating or drinking a non-halaal item on an isolated occasion. Always using investments that are interest-bearing is not a "mistake". It's a deliberate decision.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Actually, this is the debate. There is such a furore over halaal food (Burger King anyone) I am just, as an admitted antagonist against religion, trying to highlight selective religious beliefs.

As you are an admitted antagonist against religion, I will explain it in terms of the law.

One of the first thing that come up in conversation in SA is crime.

Do you use your cellphone in the car?
Have you or do you regularly drive when you have has a few drinks, and are over the legal limit?
Have you ever, or do you regularly drive over the speed limit?
Have you smoked any weed, had a line of coke?
Have you shot or killed anyone for reasons not related to self defence?
Have you robbed someone or stolen anything that is not yours?
List can go on forever

If you have done any of the above you are technically a criminal and should be dealt with according to the law. But look at the list again, do we rate each item on the list the same?

Nearly all of us use cellphones in the car, or have had a puff of weed and think not much of it. Same with driving 67kmh in a 60 zone
Some people will see drink driving as a much more serious crime, but others will shrug it off.
Killing someone or robbing someone or fraud we will take more seriously and be less likely to partake in, even though drink driving and cellphone usage while driving in many cases has led to the deaths and serious injuries to others

Do we selectively follow the laws? Yes. Are we criminals? Technically yes. Are we hypocrites? Technically yes.


Practically we are humans, and we selectively follow things based on what suits us best. We are not perfect, but lumping us all together as one big bunch of criminally inclined hypocrites won't be right, as some individuals are extremely law abiding, and most of the rest of us are too to varying degrees

 

[Hamish McPanji]

I think this is the essence of what I am saying. You are quite happy to cause conflict with the halaal food rule (which is not absolute) ; but then quietly ignore the fact that you are absolutely not allowed to have a bank account that earns interest.

Dude, I get that you are human. But tell me how you select what parts you adhere to and what parts you ignore?

I am sorry, who exactly is causing conflict with the halaal food rule?

And it is as absolute as gambling, or alcohol and interest, I don't know where you get the idea where its not absolute

 

[F1 Fan]

Again, I believe that is a complete cop-out. A "mistake" is eating or drinking a non-halaal item on an isolated occasion. Always using investments that are interest-bearing is not a "mistake". It's a deliberate decision.

I was not referring to interests, but to mistakes in general.

 

[mandana]

Muslims might have a savings account that gains interest but that does not mean they use that interest, i.e. the interest gained after a year is removed and given away. This money that's given away can't even be counted as charity.

 

[Necuno]

Whats next the wealth of gay people?

The only thing I know is that Muslims are not allowed to earn interest? Am I wrong? But as far as I know any wealth should be shared (not just on Eid - as in food)

Let me know what I'm wrong about?

 

[undesign]

The only thing I know is that Muslims are not allowed to earn interest?

They earn so called "pro[-]phe[/-]fit share"...









...linked to the prime interest rate

 

[AfricanTech]

Again, I believe that is a complete cop-out. A "mistake" is eating or drinking a non-halaal item on an isolated occasion. Always using investments that are interest-bearing is not a "mistake". It's a deliberate decision.

Spunky does have a point.

Given the rules, Muslims should ONLY be banking with Al-Baraka Bank or investing in Shariah compliant investments if they are to remain true to the religion.

 

[Suspect99]

Whenever I see that R3.46 interest in my bank account it irritates the hell out of me because I know I have to get rid of it somehow. Even my medical savings allowance gives interest. And there is no way to tell the bank to just keep it. Anyway all the investments I make are Shariah compliant products.

 

[HavocXphere]

Muslims are allowed to eat non-halaal foods (in extreme circumstances I am told).

Talked to some muslims about this. Apparently if eating non-halaal food unknowingly then its also OK.

I have never ever been told anything about ever getting virgins. And I know my religion well. Not expert, but well. So whenever I hear these remarks, I have no idea where they come from.

Well it was mostly said in jest, but a quick google suggests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#72_virgins

Seems to be a rather sketchy angle. Friend of a friend said...

Given the rules, Muslims should ONLY be banking with Al-Baraka Bank or investing in Shariah compliant investments if they are to remain true to the religion.

There is a pile of Muslims at my work - I'll ask them how they manage to work around that. Pretty sure the major banks offer Shariah investments too...not sure about bank accounts though.

Whenever I see that R3.46 interest in my bank account it irritates the hell out of me because I know I have to get rid of it somehow. Even my medical savings allowance gives interest. And there is no way to tell the bank to just keep it. Anyway all the investments I make are Shariah compliant products.

Can't you just donate 500 bucks once off and deem that to cover all interest for the next 5 years?

 

[isie]

Well it was mostly said in jest, but a quick google suggests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#72_virgins

the whole 72 virgins thing is not taught to us as its considered weak (chain of narration my have a few bad apples) so treated as weak or false
even from the wiki:

However, regarding the above statement Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf has said: "The narration, which claims that everyone would have seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators."[40] There is also a theory that the promise of 72 virgins is a mistranslation from "72 angels"

 

[azbob]

."[40] There is also a theory that the promise of 72 virgins is a mistranslation from "72 angels"

Or as Greg Giraldo said, a mistranslation from "seven foot two Persian"

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Fortunately I meet the criteria to have to give Zakaat, and not receive it. I don't think any of the mybb forumites would qualify to receive Zakkat.....sorry guys

Christians should have something similar.

I know a lot of Christians that give more than 10% tithe from their salary on a monthly and then they struggle to survive. My in-laws are one of those families.

At the moment they are going through a tough time, but they still give in the region of 2-4k to the church every month. Then me and my wife have to buy them food as they won't have anything to eat come middle of the month.

 

[zizo911]

Christians should have something similar.

I know a lot of Christians that give more than 10% tithe from their salary on a monthly and then they struggle to survive. My in-laws are one of those families.

At the moment they are going through a tough time, but they still give in the region of 2-4k to the church every month. Then me and my wife have to buy them food as they won't have anything to eat come middle of the month.

Charity begins at home...

 

[AfricanTech]

Christians should have something similar.

I know a lot of Christians that give more than 10% tithe from their salary on a monthly and then they struggle to survive. My in-laws are one of those families.

At the moment they are going through a tough time, but they still give in the region of 2-4k to the church every month. Then me and my wife have to buy them food as they won't have anything to eat come middle of the month.

And people wonder why atheists believe that religious people are less than intellectually gifted.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

And people wonder why atheists believe that religious people are less than intellectually gifted.

Thing is we both despise religion, but we can't let them starve. Now we buy them a meat hamper and they see it as a gift from god cos they gave their tithe to the church.

 

[ooogz]

My girlfriend used to give 10% every month without fail.. Her old pastor used to rock up at church in his brand new benz with armani suites and his wife the same. Meanwhile the church used catch taxis to work, eat bread and milk at the end of the month etc. Went to her church once and the pastor was going on about how he can't have a day job cause it distracts him from doing the work of God etc. So the people of his church must support his lavish lifestyle while they suffer. When he said these things the church praised him with amens!! Never went there again and she has now seen that her pastor was a crook and still is a crook. Oh and he was a cape gangster before becoming a pastor :what:

 

[DigitalSoldier]

The church my wife's parents go to the pastor also drives a brand new Toyota Hilux. And he and his wife travels all over the world doing ministry work and helping the poor in other countries. And when the pastor and his wife goes on a trip out of the country to do ministry work they also ask for money to spread the word.

I have asked her parents before why don't the church help the poor in our own community and was given some long explanation about the pastor goes where God tells him to go.

 

[AfricanTech]

Thing is we both despise religion, but we can't let them starve. Now we buy them a meat hamper and they see it as a gift from god cos they gave their tithe to the church.

Good on you mate - my comment was directed at the people you're helping out, definitely not you

I agree, you can't let them starve.

 

[Splinter]

As you are an admitted antagonist against religion, I will explain it in terms of the law.

One of the first thing that come up in conversation in SA is crime.

Do you use your cellphone in the car?
Have you or do you regularly drive when you have has a few drinks, and are over the legal limit?
Have you ever, or do you regularly drive over the speed limit?
Have you smoked any weed, had a line of coke?
Have you shot or killed anyone for reasons not related to self defence?
Have you robbed someone or stolen anything that is not yours?
List can go on forever

If you have done any of the above you are technically a criminal and should be dealt with according to the law. But look at the list again, do we rate each item on the list the same?

Nearly all of us use cellphones in the car, or have had a puff of weed and think not much of it. Same with driving 67kmh in a 60 zone
Some people will see drink driving as a much more serious crime, but others will shrug it off.
Killing someone or robbing someone or fraud we will take more seriously and be less likely to partake in, even though drink driving and cellphone usage while driving in many cases has led to the deaths and serious injuries to others

Do we selectively follow the laws? Yes. Are we criminals? Technically yes. Are we hypocrites? Technically yes.


Practically we are humans, and we selectively follow things based on what suits us best. We are not perfect, but lumping us all together as one big bunch of criminally inclined hypocrites won't be right, as some individuals are extremely law abiding, and most of the rest of us are too to varying degrees

I get what you are saying. I do not claim to be perfect, but I can tell you I have never killed anyone The difference is of course, that I don't claim to be religious and therefore adhere to those rules. I also don't think I am going to heaven, when I selectively choose which of the religious rules I adhere too...