The wind farms that will power 485,000 South African homes

[RVQ]

Cos the wind doesn't always blow...
Also, you can pull electricity out of batteries as fast as you need, which is why this sort of setup is being used for peaker plants more and more. You normal grid has a spike in demand and you need a lot of power NOW. Batteries can respond instantly. Literally instantly.
Look up Hornsdale in Australia if you want more info - they've implemented this very effectively.

In rare cases where there is access electricity Eskom uses it to fill the reservoirs at pumped storage facilities which are in turn used during peak periods or when the grid is taking strain, in all cases when the turbines turn every watt goes to service the grid, there isn't the privilege to store it in expensive batteries, 20 years from now with a more stable grid and cheaper storage options then absolutely yes, Kangnas v2 could have storage

 

[K3NS31]

In rare cases where there is access electricity Eskom uses it to fill the reservoirs at pumped storage facilities which are in turn used during peak periods or when the grid is taking strain, in all cases when the turbines turn every watt goes to service the grid, there isn't the privilege to store it expensive batteries, 20 years from now with a more stable grid and cheaper storage options then absolutely yes, Kangnas v2 could have storage

Pretty sure batteries are cheaper than pumped storage. I could be wrong tho. I do know they're faster. (Also, getting cheaper by the year. No brainer really, especially with our Eskom woes).
Plus, that excess electricity you're referring to is from the grid, not from extras like wind / solar farms, surely?
Anyway, point is you have free energy coming from wind (in this case) - store some of it in batteries for more versatility.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

This is amazing! Quick to install - not burning coal that causes untold number of deaths (which affects GDP from the perspective of health care costs and loss of income generation). Once up, you don't need to keep putting coal in to keep in running.

Yes, it's not always going to be windy, but we need to move past this thought process of, we need one solution to solve our power.. BS - we need a multi layer approach - wind, solar, nuclear, hydro and other renewable options - you don't want to rely on only one source - look at the mess that that has gotten us into now!

Hope!

In SA the government doesnt care about being sustainable or environmental impact.
To them anything that provides less jobs and doesnt have long term looting ability is a bad thing.

 

[RVQ]

Pretty sure batteries are cheaper than pumped storage. I could be wrong tho. I do know they're faster. (Also, getting cheaper by the year. No brainer really, especially with our Eskom woes).
Plus, that excess electricity you're referring to is from the grid, not from extras like wind / solar farms, surely?
Anyway, point is you have free energy coming from wind (in this case) - store some of it in batteries for more versatility.

Again you miss the point no storage is needed because its all being used, its like having to fill a pool and instead of putting the hose pipe in the pool and turning the tap on you filling a bucket first then dumping the water in the pool? Why would you do that? When Eskom does eventually sort its mess out and there's a business case that justifies the investment in batteries companies will then spend the money, right now there is no business justification for spending the money.

The pumped storage are existing infrastructure, no more investment required

 

[K3NS31]

Again you miss the point no storage is needed because its all being used, its like having to fill a pool and instead of putting the hose pipe in the pool and turning the tap on you filling a bucket first then dumping the water in the pool? snip...

Sorry, misread your analogy, lemme rephrase
Because maybe you need a firehose and you've got a garden tap. If you're using a lot of buckets, you can put in any sized hose and get the water as fast as you need. THEN use the garden tap to slowly refill the buckets at your leisure after the fire is out. Also, your tap does not always run. (Must be a Cape Town tap, lol). But you'll still have your buckets.
Furthermore, I think you overestimate the cost of batteries. Looking at what Eskom is paying for diesel and gas to prop up the grid these days, they could afford sh**loads of batteries at those prices.

 

[RVQ]

Sorry, misread your analogy, lemme rephrase
Because maybe you need a firehose and you've got a garden tap. If you're using a lot of buckets, you can put in any sized hose and get the water as fast as you need. THEN use the garden tap to slowly refill the buckets at your leisure after the fire is out. Also, your tap does not always run. (Must be a Cape Town tap, lol). But you'll still have your buckets.
Furthermore, I think you overestimate the cost of batteries. Looking at what Eskom is paying for diesel and gas to prop up the grid these days, they could afford sh**loads of batteries at those prices.

But the point is to fill the pool, what are you going to do with all the buckets, also who pays for the buckets, where to you keep them, who maintains them and pays to replace them when they end of life.

These projects aren't run by the ANC government who look for any excuse for a tender. These are well architected and planned ventures, backed by business cases supporting the expense of every rand. There is an art to simplicity and fruitless expenditure is the reason South Africa is in such a mess.

 

[My_King]

Cost per battery? If a simple mop costs R200K imagine the batteries

 

[Peon]

I do believe each blade has more surface area than a Boeing 747 wing.

Jeepers!?!?!?!

 

[system32]

I do believe each blade has more surface area than a Boeing 747 wing.

Siemens just announced a 14-MW wind turbine with a 222-meter rotor diameter meant for offshore wind farms.

 

[access]

this is pretty cool

they better face these propellers in the correct direction otherwise they will eventually change the rotation of the planet... !!

 

[furpile]

In rare cases where there is access electricity Eskom uses it to fill the reservoirs at pumped storage facilities which are in turn used during peak periods or when the grid is taking strain, in all cases when the turbines turn every watt goes to service the grid, there isn't the privilege to store it in expensive batteries, 20 years from now with a more stable grid and cheaper storage options then absolutely yes, Kangnas v2 could have storage

There is excess capacity every night, simply because the demand drops off. There is a massive difference between daytime peak demand and nighttime demand, so storing excess wind energy at night in batteries does make sense.

 

[Marcan]

Siemens just announced a 14-MW wind turbine with a 222-meter rotor diameter meant for offshore wind farms.

Indeed, The largest presently operating windturbine, and that is just one prototype is the GE Haliade-X 13 MW, with a 203 m diameter, and a total height of 253 m. Operating in the Rotterdam harbour and set several records for power per 24 h period produced for a single turbine. 312 MW hrs/24 hrs
But both the other largest windturbine manufacturers Siemens-Gamesa, (German-Spanish) and MHI Vestas (Mitsubishi Heavy Industrial) Japan, Denmark have now announced even bigger windturbines.
Together with Chinese Goldwinds these are the 4 biggest wind generator producers, and this has become a multi billion US $ business.

 

[K3NS31]

Cost per battery? If a simple mop costs R200K imagine the batteries

Not exactly sure, since it keeps changing, but if my Maths is right, Hornsdale paid about 2 Billion ZAR all in for just under 150MW / 200MWh in 2 phases since 2017. (Plus electronics etc. I think).
In contrast, it seems that Eskom paid about 400 - 600 million / month! (sometimes higher) in FY 2019 for diesel to make up for the shortfall of normal generating capacity. (You'd think this info would be easier to find. Got that off a couple of different sites tho so it seems fairly accurate.)

 

[RVQ]

There is excess capacity every night, simply because the demand drops off. There is a massive difference between daytime peak demand and nighttime demand, so storing excess wind energy at night in batteries does make sense.

View attachment 956043

And thats where base load comes in to play, Eskom has sufficient base load from nuclear and coal for the minimum required energy, they need more power during peak so the money for batteries are best invested in power generation during peak rather than storage for off peak

 

[PsyWulf]

If anybody's ever played Metal Fatigue,i'm waiting for Orbital Solar platforms beaming energy down

Metal Fatigue (video game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Datura]

Schit will get stolen.

 

[furpile]

And thats where base load comes in to play, Eskom has sufficient base load from nuclear and coal for the minimum required energy, they need more power during peak so the money for batteries are best invested in power generation during peak rather than storage for off peak

Baseload should be able to handle the normal daytime demand as well (~29000MW in the graph above). Peak demand (going above 32000MW between 4pm and 6pm) can be handled by peak generation (hydro, OCGT, batteries etc) since it does not make sense to build baseload capacity for only 2 hours per day. You cannot run the daytime average off peak generation capacity.

Going from normal daytime load at 29000MW to night time load at 23000MW means there is 6000MW available during the night. This is usually when the pump up water for hydro generators, but it is slow and often they cannot keep up. The last few years we had loadshedding over weekends so that they could top up the dams because they use too much in the week.

Eskom has already started RFI's for battery installations, it makes sense to do this. If you have a wind farm with no demand during the night, charge up the batteries and sell the energy during the day when there is demand for it.

 

[Spizz]

Baseload should be able to handle the normal daytime demand as well (~29000MW in the graph above). Peak demand (going above 32000MW between 4pm and 6pm) can be handled by peak generation (hydro, OCGT, batteries etc) since it does not make sense to build baseload capacity for only 2 hours per day. You cannot run the daytime average off peak generation capacity.

Going from normal daytime load at 29000MW to night time load at 23000MW means there is 6000MW available during the night. This is usually when the pump up water for hydro generators, but it is slow and often they cannot keep up. The last few years we had loadshedding over weekends so that they could top up the dams because they use too much in the week.

Eskom has already started RFI's for battery installations, it makes sense to do this. If you have a wind farm with no demand during the night, charge up the batteries and sell the energy during the day when there is demand for it.

Just to clear a few things up for you guys, as part of the World Bank loans agreement for loans for Medupi and Kusile, Eskom have to have 1440 MWh of Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS) installed and operating at the end of 2023. The first tender for 80MW continuous flow and 320MWh storage at a wind farm on the west coast was concluded a couple of weeks ago. Construction on this first plant is due to start in the new year and further projects expected to be announced soon.

To be fair, they have to announce them soon because if the full 1440MWh is not installed and working by the agreed date at the end of 2023, Eskom are liable for the whole lot borrowed for Medupi and Kusile, and that as you all know is rather a lot

 

[Spizz]

And thats where base load comes in to play, Eskom has sufficient base load from nuclear and coal for the minimum required energy, they need more power during peak so the money for batteries are best invested in power generation during peak rather than storage for off peak

See my other post above. Eskom were obligated to invest in an "eco-friendly" technology as part of and as a condition of the loans for Medupi and Kusile. The idea is to use existing renewable facilities to maximise their output during down time, i.e no wind or no sun etc.

But new generation is also on the cards, because running along side this BESS programme at the renewable plants, the government have started an emergency IPP programme which seeks 2GW of power within 2 years at multiple areas round the country. Tenders to be in by next month and any kind of plant and fuel will be considered depending on certain conditions.

 

[Lupus]

Baseload should be able to handle the normal daytime demand as well (~29000MW in the graph above). Peak demand (going above 32000MW between 4pm and 6pm) can be handled by peak generation (hydro, OCGT, batteries etc) since it does not make sense to build baseload capacity for only 2 hours per day. You cannot run the daytime average off peak generation capacity.

Going from normal daytime load at 29000MW to night time load at 23000MW means there is 6000MW available during the night. This is usually when the pump up water for hydro generators, but it is slow and often they cannot keep up. The last few years we had loadshedding over weekends so that they could top up the dams because they use too much in the week.

Eskom has already started RFI's for battery installations, it makes sense to do this. If you have a wind farm with no demand during the night, charge up the batteries and sell the energy during the day when there is demand for it.

One of the reasons for the night time load shedding was that the base load that normally sits at 29000 dropped down to 21000 not even being able to handle night time load, this also put a lot of strain on OCTGs and pumped storage.
December, January thru to March the unplanned outages were at 20 to 29% with April through to June hovering around 20% but thanks to lockdown they could manage.
Now it's hovering at 13 to 17% and planned is around the same.