There is 'absolutely zero' in govt's kitty for bailouts, including at SAA - Mthembu

[hellfire]

There should be a 'discretionary tax'. People contribute what they feel the system is deserving of. In other words, "an optional tax". Sounds impractical? Sounds like "why would I pay if my neighbour doesn't?" It certainly could- and would work. There can be a public record of what each person or company chooses to contribute. If someone choose not to contribute then they must provide their reasons. If they are choosing not to contribute and their reasons are not, well, reasonable, then they can be called out publicly for it (and boycotted, etc.) If many people have valid reasons NOT to contribute and the government suffers from lack of funds then that government might very quickly address those shortcomings and then people would contribute. Very much a self-balancing system. The better the government, the more people of the country will support them (monetarily), and visa-versa. If "nobody" wants to pay for no good reason then, well, that would indicate a country consisting of people with a lack of integrity and it would reflect.

I dislike you intensely, because you've made me agree with @ambroseg1 on something

 

[Vrotappel]

There should be a 'discretionary tax'. People contribute what they feel the system is deserving of. In other words, "an optional tax". Sounds impractical? Sounds like "why would I pay if my neighbour doesn't?" It certainly could- and would work. There can be a public record of what each person or company chooses to contribute. If someone choose not to contribute then they must provide their reasons. If they are choosing not to contribute and their reasons are not, well, reasonable, then they can be called out publicly for it (and boycotted, etc.) If many people have valid reasons NOT to contribute and the government suffers from lack of funds then that government might very quickly address those shortcomings and then people would contribute. Very much a self-balancing system. The better the government, the more people of the country will support them (monetarily), and visa-versa. If "nobody" wants to pay for no good reason then, well, that would indicate a country consisting of people with a lack of integrity and it would reflect.

Something like voluntary communism.

 

[konfab]

What are alternatives to tax?

"But without the slaves, who will pick my cotton".

The existence of the government and its taxation blots out any other solution. Just like slavery and serfdom kept the price of labour low enough that it wasn't worth developing industrial machinery to do the work.

 

[konfab]

There should be a 'discretionary tax'. People contribute what they feel the system is deserving of. In other words, "an optional tax". Sounds impractical? Sounds like "why would I pay if my neighbour doesn't?" It certainly could- and would work. There can be a public record of what each person or company chooses to contribute. If someone choose not to contribute then they must provide their reasons. If they are choosing not to contribute and their reasons are not, well, reasonable, then they can be called out publicly for it (and boycotted, etc.) If many people have valid reasons NOT to contribute and the government suffers from lack of funds then that government might very quickly address those shortcomings and then people would contribute. Very much a self-balancing system. The better the government, the more people of the country will support them (monetarily), and visa-versa. If "nobody" wants to pay for no good reason then, well, that would indicate a country consisting of people with a lack of integrity and it would reflect.

That sounds very complex.

How about this: you have absolute freedom of movement between all nation states. That broadly gives you a very wide choice of how much tax you would be happy to pay.
Were this the case, I would pack my bags right now and move to Mauritius with its 10% income tax.

Would solve the problem of taxation once and for all. However it would eliminate the welfare state completely because the poor will flood the countries with high taxes and welfare, whilst the rich would flee to countries that have low taxes.

 

[DreamKing]

What are alternatives to tax?

privatize every government department.

==> user-pay policy applied.

 

[ForceFate]

privatize every government department.

==> user-pay policy applied.

Where have we observed this working?

 

[DreamKing]

Where have we observed this working?

why not?

every department has the price list, if you want to use it ==> pay.

eg: court: 1 hour / R50k, 2 hours / 80k.
police: R200 / month

etc

tell me which department can't be privatized?

 

[The_Librarian]

why not?

every department has the price list, if you want to use it ==> pay.

eg: court: 1 hour / R50k, 2 hours / 80k.
police: R200 / month

etc

tell me which department can't be privatized?

If that can be pulled off, departments will quickly become very efficient.

Or not.

 

[DreamKing]

If that can be pulled off, departments will quickly become very efficient.

Or not.

if anc can run the government as same as a normal company ...

we will have the best government on earth.

 

[ForceFate]

why not?

every department has the price list, if you want to use it ==> pay.

eg: court: 1 hour / R50k, 2 hours / 80k.
police: R200 / month

etc

tell me which department can't be privatized?

DHA, Military, Health (SA is poor in general), Education, Intelligence, Police, etc...

I asked if this has ever been pulled off elsewhere before.

 

[Mystic Twilight]

privatize every government department.

==> user-pay policy applied.

Except when you're bleeding to death and unconscious, going to be difficult to get that credit card authorization. And before you say medical aid, well that's what the nhi was meant to be for and we all know what the general consensus is towards that.

 

[DreamKing]

DHA, Military, Health (SA is poor in general), Education, Intelligence, Police, etc...

I asked if this has ever been pulled off elsewhere before.

home affair, health, education, police can't be privatized? why??
military / intelligence can be funded by the profits from other departments or they can be profits by arms sales or other activities. example: denel

 

[DreamKing]

Except when you're bleeding to death and unconscious, going to be difficult to get that credit card authorization. And before you say medical aid, well that's what the nhi was meant to be for and we all know what the general consensus is towards that.

I have the other idea, assume that all the departments are "non-profit", but we allow they can earn the profits in a percentage linked to x (eg GDP). the profits can fund the poor communities.

is that better?

PS: they can save your life first and then asks you to pay later.

 

[ToxicBunny]

home affair, health, education, police can't be privatized? why??
military / intelligence can be funded by the profits from other departments or they can be profits by arms sales or other activities. example: denel

You really haven't even vaguely thought your idea through have you?

 

[DreamKing]

DHA, Military, Health (SA is poor in general), Education, Intelligence, Police, etc...

I asked if this has ever been pulled off elsewhere before.

did I answer your question yet?

 

[The_Librarian]

police can't be privatized? why??

because some rich bastard may "buy" the police and make them his personal army...

 

[SAguy]

why not?

every department has the price list, if you want to use it ==> pay.

eg: court: 1 hour / R50k, 2 hours / 80k.
police: R200 / month

etc

tell me which department can't be privatized?

And those that can't afford these services just don't get it at all?
That's one way to turn already poor and crime ridden areas into absolute disasters.

 

[DreamKing]

because some rich bastard may "buy" the police and make them his personal army...

how they run their private security companies?

oh wait ...

 

[DreamKing]

And those that can't afford these services just don't get it at all?
That's one way to turn already poor and crime ridden areas into absolute disasters.

said that already,

you may allow to have "some profits" to give back to the poor.

 

[ForceFate]

how they run their private security companies?

oh wait ...

Some are already being run like a private army or used by thuggish owners to hoard legal and illegal weapons. There has been instances of this in WC and KZN...