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There is no hell because no one has observed it.

Techne

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
9,559
Indeed it is fun, chatting with a god fearing person is always up there for a good laugh. All Atheism is, is a lack of belief in god/s - its actually very simple snookums, its just a word an adjective to describe someone, nothing more nothing less.
Hey, you got it:eek:. Congratulations!

P.S., "lack" may need some work. Shame man, you wouldn't want people to think atheism is a non-cognitive view that non-thinking things like rocks and bread can have. But baby steps.
 
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lived666

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
7,830
Hey, you got it:eek:. Congratulations!

P.S., "lack" may need some work. Shame man, you wouldn't want people to think atheism is a non-cognitive view that non-thinking things like rocks and bread can have. But baby steps.
Not sure why our pseudo Christian here is coming across all smug but got what snookums? Nothing has changed in what I have said. Atheism is and remains an adjective to describe a sane person that doesn't believe in magical sky daddies.
 

rietrot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
9,688
Not sure why our pseudo Christian here is coming across all smug but got what snookums? Nothing has changed in what I have said. Atheism is and remains an adjective to describe a sane person that doesn't believe in magical sky daddies.
Lol so 90% of all people and most likely most of your own family members are insane. Ya okay.
 

Techne

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
9,559
Not sure why our pseudo Christian here is coming across all smug but got what snookums? Nothing has changed in what I have said. Atheism is and remains an adjective to describe a sane person that doesn't believe in magical sky daddies.
So sad to see you regress so fast. There was hope.

I buhleeeve without evidence... you can doo eet!
 
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Nick333

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,229
atheism is a non-cognitive view that non-thinking things like rocks and bread can have.
That's a good one, but only about half right. In a society where most people take the existence of a deity as a given, atheism can require a considerable amount of cognition, and theism not so much. I talk from experience. I remember having my mind blown by a friend who didn't believe in God when I was 13 or 14. That the universe could exist without a creator just did not compute. I didn't have a philosophical reason for believing there must be a creator, I just felt there had to be.

But, you're right, atheism is only a lack of belief in deities. It doesn't mean that an atheist doesn't believe in fairytales, but I think the only fairytale youre dealing with here is that the only knowledge worth having is scientific. Ask your average New Atheist about consciousness and they'll probably tell you it's just a product of the brain, which is the logical answer if you approach the problem from a materialistic perspective. No, make that the only answer if you approach it from the materialistic perspective. You don't actually need any evidence for consciousness being an emergent phenomena if you approach it from a materialistic perspective. Which strikes me a bit as being a "if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" scenario. Which is actually fair enough, what other perspective can science have?
The fact is, not all questions can be answered scientifically. It's probable that not all things can be measured, in which case science is not useful in all things.

On the other hand, God seems to be a catch all for all those things that science hasn't or can't measure for some. And, people always seem to have a ready made image to dress God up in and foist on one another. God is another sort of hammer in my opinion. Consciousness is a mystery? Well that's because you are actually eternal soul that's created by God that's independent of your body. Where did everything come from? Well God made everything (but don't think too hard about where God came from). It seems to me that the mystery of existence becomes the proof of God for theists, but that's just my perspective.
 

Techne

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
9,559
atheism is a non-cognitive view that non-thinking things like rocks and bread can have.
That's a good one, but only about half right. In a society where most people take the existence of a deity as a given, atheism can require a considerable amount of cognition, and theism not so much. I talk from experience. I remember having my mind blown by a friend who didn't believe in God when I was 13 or 14. That the universe could exist without a creator just did not compute. I didn't have a philosophical reason for believing there must be a creator, I just felt there had to be.
But, you're right, atheism is only a lack of belief in deities. It doesn't mean that an atheist doesn't believe in fairytales, but I think the only fairytale youre dealing with here is that the only knowledge worth having is scientific.
My full sentence was:
Shame man, you wouldn't want people to think atheism is a non-cognitive view that non-thinking things like rocks and bread can have.
So I think you are mistaken in thinking I agree that "atheism is only a lack of belief in deities". I would rather give the benefit of the doubt to a person claiming to be an atheist and assume that he/she doesn't just hold the non-cognitive view of "oh I just lack the belief in deities" like circles, rocks and other non-thinking things (the young earth creationists of atheism if you want :p). Instead, I would rather assume the person has considered the question "does God exist" after considering the strongest argument for and against it and come to the conclusion "I do not think God exists".


Ask your average New Atheist about consciousness and they'll probably tell you it's just a product of the brain, which is the logical answer if you approach the problem from a materialistic perspective. No, make that the only answer if you approach it from the materialistic perspective. You don't actually need any evidence for consciousness being an emergent phenomena if you approach it from a materialistic perspective. Which strikes me a bit as being a "if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" scenario. Which is actually fair enough, what other perspective can science have?
The fact is, not all questions can be answered scientifically. It's probable that not all things can be measured, in which case science is not useful in all things.
That is a useful smackdown of scientism. But that means you now have to deal with metaphysics :unsure::p.

On the other hand, God seems to be a catch all for all those things that science hasn't or can't measure for some. And, people always seem to have a ready made image to dress God up in and foist on one another. God is another sort of hammer in my opinion. Consciousness is a mystery? Well that's because you are actually eternal soul that's created by God that's independent of your body. Where did everything come from? Well God made everything (but don't think too hard about where God came from). It seems to me that the mystery of existence becomes the proof of God for theists, but that's just my perspective.
Sure, "God did it" can be a non-cognitive answer to a lot of people that just want a hammer to squash their ignorance. That does not imply that God as an answer can never be a good explanation for some very interesting metaphysical conundrums. Btw, thinking where the first cause is for a first cause is not one of these ;):X3:.
 

DMNknight

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Messages
2,388
Not sure why our pseudo Christian here is coming across all smug but got what snookums? Nothing has changed in what I have said. Atheism is and remains an adjective to describe a sane person that doesn't believe in magical sky daddies.
Atheism is the decision by any person for any reason to decide that there is no God.

Sanity, education and logic do not enter the equation at this point. Atheism in itself suffers from a lot of illogical conclusions... the same illogical conclusions that Theism does.

As an Example, the Fallacy of the illicit negative, confirmation bias, Choice supportive bias and the entrenchment effect.

This does not mean that all Atheists or Theists are wrong but I've met very few who can give a well reasoned argument without falling into the various logical, cognitive or augmentative bias's which tend to skew our views.

Ergo, Atheists and Theist fall into the same logical traps to support their beliefs and somehow believe each other to be fundamentally wrong when committing the same fallacy's. :ROFL:
The primary logical fallacy that both sides suffer from is the Black/White Fallacy.
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Nick333

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,229
That is a useful smackdown of scientism. But that means you now have to deal with metaphysics :unsure::p.
I'm not sure the problem can be dealt with. Not intellectually anyway. It always feels like trying to look at the back of my own head.

I think the problem we're all dealing with is actually existential angst. Most atheists deal with it by ignoring it and most (if not all) theists try to deal with it by negating existentialism altogether.

It would explain why everyone seems so angry in here. In all cases the ego is at stake - can you take you with you when you die.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
1,341
Not sure why our pseudo Christian here is coming across all smug but got what snookums? Nothing has changed in what I have said. Atheism is and remains an adjective to describe a sane person that doesn't believe in magical sky daddies.
Atheism is a noun. Atheistic is an adjective.
 

rietrot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
9,688
I'm not sure the problem can be dealt with. Not intellectually anyway. It always feels like trying to look at the back of my own head.

I think the problem we're all dealing with is actually existential angst. Most atheists deal with it by ignoring it and most (if not all) theists try to deal with it by negating existentialism altogether.

It would explain why everyone seems so angry in here. In all cases the ego is at stake - can you take you with you when you die.
This actually took me some time to think about it. So Thanks, I guess for teaching me something and not just shîtposting like everyone else.
For some reason I really wanted to disagree with that middle part.
So existentialism seems right, so first I wanted to reconcile it with Christianity, and defend it claiming you can have all that nice freedoms without the angst but then you'd have to give up meaning(essence). At that point I figured you are correct and theists can just negate existentialism as a really good, almost true, half truth. Because life has meaning, that which you make for yourself and that you get from your essence.
 
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