They’re Lying about Louis C.K

Cray

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Ja, he over stepped the line once as far as those articles go. That doesn't turn every other time he jerked off in front of a women into the same thing, and how huge a frikken deal was it anyway? Ja, I guess those chicks have a right to talk about it in public, and the public is entitled to judge him on it, but that doesn't make it right to bring up every time he propositioned a women and judge him on it too.
People have a right to judge whoever they want... If Louis was so concerned about his reputation perhaps he should have kept it in his pants in the first place. At the very least he could have made sure that the people he was propositioning where actually into him before whipping it out.....
 

cerebus

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I get where you are coming from - just don't demonize everyone that flits or makes advances. Not everyone is bad. Not everyone is going to railroad your choices or treat you with disrespect.
I don't think she's doing that. But unwanted sexual advances are very difficult for a person to deal with - particularly when they come from someone close to us or in a position of power over us. Consent is not simply a matter of saying yes,or not saying 'no' and passively allowing something to happen, because in the moment we don't necessarily know what else to do. Only after the fact we feel violated and then we need to face that person again and realize that what we took for a mentor/collegial/friendly relationship was sexualised by them and you need to continue working with them or deal with the professional consequences of quitting.

Sexual consent needs to be enthusiastic, or it isn't real consent. Most people understand that when you pressure someone into saying yes to something they don't really want to do, they aren't giving true consent - especially in sexual matters where mutual enjoyment is crucial.
 

JimmyRott

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It seems some people need some very basic lessons in what is sexual harassment.


Sexual harassment is any unwanted verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature. It can make you feel embarrassed, offended, intimidated or unsafe and shouldn’t be ignored.

Sexual harassment can take place anywhere, including at school, at work or out in public, so it’s important to recognize the different types of sexual harassment.

Sexual harassment can include:

  • inappropriate staring
  • telling sexual jokes
  • showing or sending unwanted sexual pictures, cartoons or other sexual images (including online)
  • demanding hugs, dates or sexual favours
  • asking questions or talking about someone’s sexuality, sex life or body
  • making unnecessary physical contact, including unwanted touching
  • using language that puts someone down on the basis of their gender
  • spreading sexual rumours (including online)
  • threatening to fire or punish someone if they don’t accept sexual advances (this is known as reprisal)
  • stalking (behaviour that makes someone feel unsafe including unwanted visits, phone calls, texts, emails or letters, leaving gifts or watching someone’s home/school)
If you’re being sexually harassed, remember, it’s not your fault. You’re not responsible for the harasser’s behaviour — no matter what. It’s normal to see physical and emotional side effects from the experience including anxiety, depression, fatigue and insomnia as well as relationship or self-esteem problems.
From whic part of our law is this?
 

cerebus

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From whic part of our law is this?
You can start with our local labour laws:

https://www.labourguide.co.za/general/600-code-of-good-practice-on-sexual-harassment113

(c) Non-verbal forms of sexual harassment include unwelcome gestures, indecent exposure, and the unwelcome display of sexually explicit pictures and objects.
(d) Quid pro quo harassment occurs where an owner, employer, supervisor, member of management or co-employee, undertakes or attempts to influence the process of employment, promotion, training, discipline, dismissal, salary increment or other benefit of an employee or job applicant, in exchange for sexual favours.
(2) Sexual favouritism exists where a person who is in a position of authority rewards only those who respond to his/her sexual advances, whilst other deserving employees who do not submit themselves to any sexual advances are denied promotions, merit rating or salary increases.
 

JimmyRott

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I don't think she's doing that. But unwanted sexual advances are very difficult for a person to deal with - particularly when they come from someone close to us or in a position of power over us. Consent is not simply a matter of saying yes,or not saying 'no' and passively allowing something to happen, because in the moment we don't necessarily know what else to do. Only after the fact we feel violated and then we need to face that person again and realize that what we took for a mentor/collegial/friendly relationship was sexualised by them and you need to continue working with them or deal with the professional consequences of quitting.

Sexual consent needs to be enthusiastic, or it isn't real consent. Most people understand that when you pressure someone into saying yes to something they don't really want to do, they aren't giving true consent - especially in sexual matters where mutual enjoyment is crucial.
Do you have some kind of checklist we could use to judge the amount of enthusiasm being shown?
 

cerebus

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Do you have some kind of checklist we could use to judge the amount of enthusiasm being shown?
Nope, but if you're asking someone to do something that most people would consider pretty gross, I'd say the standard should be clear and unambiguous enthusiasm.
 

JimmyRott

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You can start with our local labour laws:

https://www.labourguide.co.za/general/600-code-of-good-practice-on-sexual-harassment113

(c) Non-verbal forms of sexual harassment include unwelcome gestures, indecent exposure, and the unwelcome display of sexually explicit pictures and objects.
(d) Quid pro quo harassment occurs where an owner, employer, supervisor, member of management or co-employee, undertakes or attempts to influence the process of employment, promotion, training, discipline, dismissal, salary increment or other benefit of an employee or job applicant, in exchange for sexual favours.
(2) Sexual favouritism exists where a person who is in a position of authority rewards only those who respond to his/her sexual advances, whilst other deserving employees who do not submit themselves to any sexual advances are denied promotions, merit rating or salary increases.
Where is the innapropriate staring part?

I'm gonna ask again cause I'm really curious (please just drop a pm if you don't want to post here), do you know zoom in real life?
 

JimmyRott

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Nope, but if you're asking someone to do something that most people would consider pretty gross, I'd say the standard should be clear and unambiguous enthusiasm.
What if I just want to have sex. Where does it need to be on the enthusiasm scale? You see tge problem comes in when using enthusiasm as a judge of consent?

How about a very enthusiastic, very drunk girl?
 

cerebus

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What if I just want to have sex. Where does it need to be on the enthusiasm scale?
If you want to have sex, that's enthusiasm. If you don't want to have sex but you do to make someone else happy, it's not enthusiasm. It's a very simple standard.

How about a very enthusiastic, very drunk girl?
How about it? Why are you introducing irrelevant scenarios here?
 

KT-B

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What if I just want to have sex. Where does it need to be on the enthusiasm scale? You see tge problem comes in when using enthusiasm as a judge of consent?

How about a very enthusiastic, very drunk girl?
The fact that she is drunk means that she cannot give consent. She may want to but her mental faculties are impaired and a court would find that she could not give consent. Best not to have sex with really drunk chicks.
 

Jings

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That's pretty obvious but the look on his eyes, like he wants to possess her.

All the while she didn't give him consent, so the situation is different from Louis CK's. Boys and girls are taught that no means no. When there is objection after consent is given lines become a little blurred.
 

access

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That's pretty obvious but the look on his eyes, like he wants to possess her.

All the while she didn't give him consent, so the situation is different from Louis CK's. Boys and girls are taught that no means no. When there is objection after consent is given lines become a little blurred.
cause he is fantasizing with his dick in his hand, i mean really.

edit:
if his eyes were wide open and he had a big open mouth smile, would that be better? no gloomy gaze? lol

so like what constitutes as a male gaze? unwanted attention from an unattractive man? cause attractive people get away with what they want most of the time, lots of gazing.
 

Jings

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cause he is fantasizing with his dick in his hand, i mean really.
In general men and women perceive such a situation in a fundamentally different way.

If it were merely fantasising he would have quietly slipped back into his car.
 

KT-B

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cause he is fantasizing with his dick in his hand, i mean really.

edit:
if his eyes were wide open and he had a big open mouth smile, would that be better? no gloomy gaze? lol

so like what constitutes as a male gaze? unwanted attention from an unattractive man? cause attractive people get away with what they want most of the time, lots of gazing.
No I think an attractive guy wanking off in a public driveway would also have been fired. Besides - you are being rather judgemental calling him unattractive. He definitely isn't ugly.

I am not familiar with this male gaze but from what I understand, it is when a guy looks at a woman and basically undresses her with his eyes. It makes many women feel very uncomfortable. So it is not a normal stare - it is more intense.
 
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