Thinking about full frame

[koffiejunkie]

I have spent a lot of time lately working through the arguments for and against getting a full frame body. According to the collective wisom of the internet, the advantages are:

1. Per-pixel sharpness.
2. Colour depth.
3. Dynamic range.
4. Big viewfinder.
5. Narrow depth of field.
6. High ISO performance.

Here's my take on this:

Per-pixel sharpness: Well, as long as my G9 can still resolves lots of detail at 12MP, I'm not losing sleep over this.

Big viewfinder: Yes, I want it!

Narrow depth of field: I don't care. I'm just not a fan of incredibly shallow depth of field. Out of my entire library I can count the number of times that it makes sense on one hand. I don't particularly like everything except my subject's eye to be blurred into oblivion. Subject isolation is a rather poor argument for this - you can draw attention to your subject with composition. Composition is the cake, bokeh is the icing. Of course, this is personal opinion, in line with my taste - YMMV

High ISO performance: This is what I'm after. Throw colour depth anf dynamic range into the mix. But there's a problem, and it's to do with depth of field. Consider the following scenario:

I have a 50D and a 5DmkII. DXOmark shows the difference between the two cameras to be roughly 1+1/3 stop, i.e. what the 50D delivers at 200 ISO, the 5DmkII can match 500 ISO odd. On the 50D I have a 50mm lens, I'm focusing at 100cm, at f/2.8. dofmaster shows that I have 4.09cm depth of field. To match this on the 5DmkII, I need to be at 80mm. But f/2.8 only gives me 2.44cm depth of field. To match what I got out of the 50D at f/2.8, I need to stop down to f/4.8 - that's 1+2/3 stops.

If I'm at the same ISO speed on both, my shutter is going to be much slower on the 5DmkII, and if I'm already pushing the limits of hand holdability, I'll need to push up the ISO to compensate. To match the shutter speed, my ISO would have to be 1+2/3 stops higher. See what I did there? I just wiped out the high ISO performance, colour depth and dynamic range advantage. Fat lot of good that did!

Of course, that's doesn't apply for all types of shooting, but it happens to cover the overwhelming majority of my shooting (out side of travel).

 

[MadMailMan]

Dude! The first time I read this it gave me a headache. The second time I agreed with you. I just can't find the question though.

 

[koffiejunkie]

Not asking a question. I'm just thinking things over. If I was a working pro, I'd have one of each, and use the best tool for each particular job. But for my purposes I'm less and less convinced that a full frame body would be my best option. The 7D is more and more starting to look like camera nirvana toe me

 

[MadMailMan]

Well I have the 7D and it's really awesome. I just wish I had more time to take it out it's bag. :-(

 

[koffiejunkie]

Yeah, it's a good machine. It's just pretty hard to justify upgrading from the 50D. It's more than double what I can sell the 50D for, for fair but not incredible gains.

 

[MadMailMan]

Isn't your 50D insured?


:twisted:

 

[koffiejunkie]

Aah yes, it is, but I'm not to keen to push up my insurance premium. And if I was to buy another body, I'd prefer to keep the 50D for backup.

 

[bwana]

1DMk4, best of both worlds.

 

[koffiejunkie]

1DMk4, best of both worlds.

Eh, for that kinda money I can get a 5DmkII *and* a 7D and have some cash left...

 

[MadMailMan]

Eh, for that kinda money I can get a 5DmkII *and* a 7D and have some cash left...

Yes but you don't get boasting rights with either of those bodies. I know I checked the boxes they came in. No boasting rights at all.

I'm actually keeping an eye out for a used 1DMkIII but people are just not parting with them.

 

[bwana]

Eh, for that kinda money I can get a 5DmkII *and* a 7D and have some cash left...

I'm not going to have many pennies left after I get my 400mm but I sure would like a Mk4 for myself.

I'd even like another 1DMk3 instead of my 7D truth be told.

 

[koffiejunkie]

I'd even like another 1DMk3 instead of my 7D truth be told.

He he - now you know why I never wanted a Rebel. Once you get used to a higher-end body, the lesser ones just don't feel as good

 

[chau]

I'm not going to have many pennies left after I get my 400mm but I sure would like a Mk4 for myself.

I'd even like another 1DMk3 instead of my 7D truth be told.

You buy too much glass and it makes me jealous :'(

 

[bwana]

He he - now you know why I never wanted a Rebel. Once you get used to a higher-end body, the lesser ones just don't feel as good

Oddly enough it's got little to do with ergonomics, for what I need the 1DMk is just better than the 7D.

It's got better AF, a higher frame rate, cleaner high ISO, dual card slots and voice annotations - the list goes on. On the downside it's a brute to lug around. I'm shooting an event tomorrow with the 7D and a Rebel in reserve because I don't want to have to carry my 1D all day.

You buy too much glass and it makes me jealous :'(

I could never afford photography as a hobby.

 

[Krypty]

I can honestly say having the the full frame canon it is a beast and you can clearly see the difference. The only issue I maybe have and have compensated by now is
the AF.

If you want to do BIF, go 7D, with planning you can do the rest. It just takes a while to get used to the AF.

But after that, I have absolutely no complaints about. Landscapes and Portraits are a pleasure and low light is amazing.

 

[koffiejunkie]

But after that, I have absolutely no complaints about. Landscapes and Portraits are a pleasure and low light is amazing.

Which one do you have Krypty? The ancient AF is the reason I've steered clear of the 5DmkII - I was really disappointed that they haven't updated that.

 

[Dolby]

Just out of interest, I was reading a reveiw who preferred the 9-point AF of the 5D MKII to the 19-point of the 7D

 

[koffiejunkie]

Just out of interest, I was reading a reveiw who preferred the 9-point AF of the 5D MKII to the 19-point of the 7D

It's not the number of points that's the issue. The 40D/50D has 9-point AF too but it kicks the 5D(mkII) AF's butt. The AF points on the 5D(mkII) are closer together, relative to the frame. This, to me, makes it less useful in terms of selecting one of the side points to do something in portrait mode. It also has only one cross-type AF point (center). The AF on the 40D/50D are all cross type, they're spread better, and in my experience, the AF is faster. The other thing that I would have expected on a body of this class is that spot metering should be on the selected AF point. In short, the 5D(mkII) has the same AF the 10D had that it was based on. Things have evolved since then...

 

[Krypty]

I have the 5D mkII.

I only use the center point for focus. I must say the focus is spot on and never misses but at the cost of speed.
I would say the AF speed is faster than the 450D which ain't bad but yes you are right the technology has evolved.

After all the complaints about AF etc, I would never ever get rid of my mkII until the mkIII comes out next year of course.
I think since I got it I have only taken about 10 shots on my second body.

Here is the latest rumors for the replacement:

5D Mark III

* A Q2/Q3 announcement in 2011, this is not yet decided within Canon.
* Big megapixel boost, 28mp +
* Continue to build on EOSHD and supreme image quality.
* A variant of the 7D AF system.
* I can’t see them not calling it 5D Mark III, the 5D name carries a lot of weight.
* Expect it to be in the same $2699 range the 5D Mark II was at launch.
* Obvious ergonomic upgrades.

 

[koffiejunkie]

I have the 5D mkII.

I only use the center point for focus.

See?

I must say the focus is spot on and never misses but at the cost of speed.

On the 40D/50D it's spot on *and* fast. That's my point - there's no reason for the 5DmkII to not at least have the same AF as the 40D which was out well before the 5DmkII came out. And especially since the direct competition, the Nikon D700, had has the same AF as the D3, i.e. the 50-point with all the funky pro stuff.

* A variant of the 7D AF system.

Now that would make me consider it. I'm just not sure I can cope with 28MP files - the 15MP ones from my 50D are already putting strain on my system