Throwing the little guy under the EWC bus – Frans Cronjé

[ToxicBunny]

Wrong how? They lent you money, and contractually you are obliged to repay it.

It's the same as taking out a car loan, not insuring it, and it gets stolen. You still have to repay the bank, whether you have the car or not.

It sucks, but it is legal. Judges (the competent ones at least) don't go for feelings of right or wrong. They must implement the letter of the law.

I would think its slightly different...

They lent the money, secured against an asset that now has been removed from your possession via questionable legal "processes".

So your car theft scenario doesn't hold true, unless someone can legally steal your car

 

[clickingbuttons]

Whats interesting is that a bonded property is actually owned by the bank, not the "homeowner", as per the title deed at the deeds office. The "home owner" only takes ownership of the house once the deed has been transferred into their name. So if any bonded property gets EWC's its actually the state taking it directly from the bank?

Am I wrong here?

 

[rietrot]

I would think its slightly different...

They lent the money, secured against an asset that now has been removed from your possession via questionable legal "processes".

So your car theft scenario doesn't hold true, unless someone can legally steal your car

It's secured to the property and you. Not just the property. There's plenty of legal precedent for it. You will be held liable for the debt even if you don't have the property anymore for whatever reason.

 

[rietrot]

Whats interesting is that a bonded property is actually owned by the bank, not the "homeowner", as per the title deed at the deeds office. The "home owner" only takes ownership of the house once the deed has been transferred into their name. So if any bonded property gets EWC's its actually the state taking it directly from the bank?

Am I wrong here?

No that's wrong, it's not a car. A title deed get registered in the homeowner's name on day 1

 

[ToxicBunny]

It's secured to the property and you. Not just the property. There's plenty of legal precedent for it. You will be held liable for the debt even if you don't have the property anymore for whatever reason.

Yeah, but it won't be a simple open and shut case... a fundamental underpinning of the contract would have been altered by the passing of an EWC law....
The court may rule that you still have to pay it of course, but it isn't as cut and dried as people would think. There is room in the interpretation.

 

[rietrot]

Yeah, but it won't be a simple open and shut case... a fundamental underpinning of the contract would have been altered by the passing of an EWC law....
The court may rule that you still have to pay it of course, but it isn't as cut and dried as people would think. There is room in the interpretation.

I think we'll have bigger issues to worry about than the legalities, but courts can only rule on what the law is. If the constitution is changed the CC can't rule that it was unconstitutional for the government to steal your property. And because you weren't wronged in any way legally I can't see a bases for you to get your mortgage loan voided.

 

[Gaz{M}]

In fact it is worse than just the "bond amount" you owe the bank. The last bond i took, they made me sign documents so they could register an additional amount (about R650 000) at the deeds office, so they could use that money to SUE ME if I didn't pay my bond installments.

Yes, you read that right. The bank made me borrow extra money to pay for them to sue me!

 

[ToxicBunny]

In fact it is worse than just the "bond amount" you owe the bank. The last bond i took, they made me sign documents so they could register an additional amount (about R650 000) at the deeds office, so they could use that money to SUE ME if I didn't pay my bond installments.

Yes, you read that right. The bank made me borrow extra money to pay for them to sue me!

I know... its awesome hey...

 

[MrGray]

Yeah, but it won't be a simple open and shut case... a fundamental underpinning of the contract would have been altered by the passing of an EWC law....
The court may rule that you still have to pay it of course, but it isn't as cut and dried as people would think. There is room in the interpretation.

I'm not sure there's much as much room in the interpretation.

A fundamental change to the underpinning of the contract probably entitles the bank to end the loan and demand their money back.

The key question is what happens to the bank's mortgage on your title deed if is forcibly registered to another owner by the state. The deeds office cannot register a mortgage over a deed without the owner's consent, which presumably the new owner isn't going to give. AFAIK the bank is then not precluded from recovering their loaned money by normal debt collection methods - judgment and attaching assets.

 

[dj2381]

The banks wont survive long enough to get their money back from anyone.

 

[SoldierMan]

Gold is useless when there are armed bands of thugs roaming the countryside , rather invest in the real precious metals , brass , lead and copper.

Um, how about both, there's a novel idea!

What are you going to do with all that firepower if you can't put food on the table because the Rand is through the floor. Gold/silver will help with that. Plus it is a means of wealth preservation.

And food get lots of food. Buy wheat (it will keep for many decades so you don't have to worry about it going rotten) and store it in two plastic bags which you tie tight and then place those two bags in a 25kg bucket with a lid. Then buy a solar oven so that you can cook your bread without electricity in our lovely SA sun. They are cheap. Try the Sunstove. That is for summer. For winter, well, look you can buy gas bottles or even little camping stoves (MSR make some nice little ones) and buy fuel for them, it is benzine in SA. And then get the buckets of food that last for about 25 years. They have all kinds of ready meals in them, just add water, like pasta, oats, etc. You also get 25 year buckets that consist only of cheese sauce for pasta you can make from the wheat, or to dip your bread in.

Buying tin cans is tricky because you have to cycle them, something I didn't do, so I lost a lot, having to throw them out when the sell by date past by 2 years LOL. That's what is so great about wheat it keeps forever.

For sweets, you can vacuum pack so many things, in addition to that I bought two cases of honey which is the healthy version if you get want something sweet. It goes into a hardened form when left to stand but that is just fine as you can scoop out a little to eat. If you want it to put in your coffee or tea (which you must vacuum pack) then just heat the honey at a low temperature and it will reliquefy.

Anyway you get the general idea.

 

[Jabulani22]

Um, how about both, there's a novel idea!

What are you going to do with all that firepower if you can't put food on the table because the Rand is through the floor. Gold/silver will help with that. Plus it is a means of wealth preservation.

And food get lots of food. Buy wheat (it will keep for many decades so you don't have to worry about it going rotten) and store it in two plastic bags which you tie tight and then place those two bags in a 25kg bucket with a lid. Then buy a solar oven so that you can cook your bread without electricity in our lovely SA sun. They are cheap. Try the Sunstove. That is for summer. For winter, well, look you can buy gas bottles or even little camping stoves (MSR make some nice little ones) and buy fuel for them, it is benzine in SA. And then get the buckets of food that last for about 25 years. They have all kinds of ready meals in them, just add water, like pasta, oats, etc. You also get 25 year buckets that consist only of cheese sauce for pasta you can make from the wheat, or to dip your bread in.

Buying tin cans is tricky because you have to cycle them, something I didn't do, so I lost a lot, having to throw them out when the sell by date past by 2 years LOL. That's what is so great about wheat it keeps forever.

For sweets, you can vacuum pack so many things, in addition to that I bought two cases of honey which is the healthy version if you get want something sweet. It goes into a hardened form when left to stand but that is just fine as you can scoop out a little to eat. If you want it to put in your coffee or tea (which you must vacuum pack) then just heat the honey at a low temperature and it will reliquefy.

Anyway you get the general idea.

And where do you plan to store all this once your land is EWC'ed ?
Minimal supplies are what allows you to carry more brass , brass can be used to trade or EWC rations , also your car will not be an option as fuel will likely become scarce , thats why all these preppers planning on convoy method to safety will be doomed to failure , well that and the fact that you have a lightly protected convoy with precious resources moving around with no solid tactics.

 

[SoldierMan]

where's a good place to get that?

I live in Cape Town so the two places I use are City Coins and The Cape Gold Coin Exchange, both in the Cape Town CBD. I get a quote and see which one is the cheapest and go with that. The tenth of a Krugerrand is very tempting to go for as they can be exchanged for smaller goods, though in terms of value for for money the full Krugerrand is the best. For smaller items that you might want to buy silver is a good option as it is of less value.

For silver, I use City Coins as they sell junk silver (the old silver R1 coins and shillings), be aware that the shillings come in 50% and 80% purity so ask if you are unsure. You can also go for the new silver Krugerrands if you want something a little more recognised. Phone around. You can also try Bid Or Buy for gold and silver, just don't get caught out by a scammer, though they are few and far between.

I'm told that the last place you want to shop is at the SA Mint as they charge quite a bit, though I have never inquired.

 

[Slootvreter]

They can put in the all the clauses they want.

Unless people go to jail for bad debt (like in some middle eastern countries) it wont make any difference. Even then the bulk of folk will just abandon their homes and flee, just like those pics with the abandoned supercars in the middle east.

Yeah, no matter who says what, I'm not paying a cent should my house ever get EWC'd

 

[SoldierMan]

And where do you plan to store all this once your land is EWC'ed ?
Minimal supplies are what allows you to carry more brass , brass can be used to trade or EWC rations , also your car will not be an option as fuel will likely become scarce , thats why all these preppers planning on convoy method to safety will be doomed to failure , well that and the fact that you have a lightly protected convoy with precious resources moving around with no solid tactics.

I don't live on a farm so I'm not expecting to be EWC'd. But I do have a plan if the (outskirts) of the city (where I live) get too rough. Though you don't want to come and try and steal from me.

Like I said you can have as many firearms and ammunition as you like but if you and your family have empty stomachs you are fcked. Don't count on trading ammo for food, it might not happen. And they might just try and take it from you by force. There might not be anyone who is a prepper near you. Count on yourself and no one else.

 

[3WA]

And food get lots of food. Buy wheat (it will keep for many decades so you don't have to worry about it going rotten) and store it in two plastic bags which you tie tight and then place those two bags in a 25kg bucket with a lid. Then buy a solar oven so that you can cook your bread without electricity in our lovely SA sun. They are cheap. Try the Sunstove. That is for summer. For winter, well, look you can buy gas bottles or even little camping stoves (MSR make some nice little ones) and buy fuel for them, it is benzine in SA. And then get the buckets of food that last for about 25 years. They have all kinds of ready meals in them, just add water, like pasta, oats, etc. You also get 25 year buckets that consist only of cheese sauce for pasta you can make from the wheat, or to dip your bread in.

Buying tin cans is tricky because you have to cycle them, something I didn't do, so I lost a lot, having to throw them out when the sell by date past by 2 years LOL. That's what is so great about wheat it keeps forever.

Damn you've really thought this through. I was just planning to follow the roving hoardes and eat whoever they kill.

 

[Jabulani22]

I don't live on a farm so I'm not expecting to be EWC'd. But I do have a plan if the (outskirts) of the city (where I live) get too rough. Though you don't want to come and try and steal from me.

Like I said you can have as many firearms and ammunition as you like but if you and your family have empty stomachs you are fcked. Don't count on trading ammo for food, it might not happen. And they might just try and take it from you by force. There might not be anyone who is a prepper near you. Count on yourself and no one else.

All land will be EWC'ed eventually , so your plan lacks that , when it comes to it you will want defense before huge stockpiles of immovable foods , look at the military behind enemy lines , they pack enough for their mission and a little extra , anything they need after that is traded for or taken by force.

 

[SoldierMan]

All land will be EWC'ed eventually , so your plan lacks that , when it comes to it you will want defense before huge stockpiles of immovable foods , look at the military behind enemy lines , they pack enough for their mission and a little extra , anything they need after that is traded for or taken by force.

What don't you understand about having BOTH?

Like I said, how many preppers do you know? What about anyone that plans for shtf scenarios? No? So how are you going to count on them when things get bad. They will hide their stores, not advertise them, so you'll never know they exist.

And if you plan on taking stuff by force then you are an ahole who deserves to be shot in the opening round of a shtf event. And don't expect to get those stolen resources without a fight. Preppers are usually armed and ready.

 

[SoldierMan]

Damn you've really thought this through. I was just planning to follow the roving hoardes and eat whoever they kill.

Nah, never liked the taste of human flesh. Rather just prepare something a little more tasty. Besides who knows when YOU become the next meal

 

[Flanders]

That sector of MYBB when someone objects to having "sacred" animal bits hovering over the Woolies muffin mix:

...vs. a discussion about government's proposal to have themselves and their buddies decide who gets to steal whose property, thereby destroying what's left of the country overnight: