Tito Mboweni refuses to scrap e-tolls: 'You pay for bread, and you'll pay for roads'

[grok]

Yeah dunno dude, not sure I ever want to be on any team with somebody as warm-hearted and full of humanity such as yourself. Good luck living with that much toxicity in your tiny black heart, though.

Ah great, since you such a warm-hearted individual you can be an even better comrade and pay mine as well. Gooi biki address via pm so I can direct Scumral account dept your way.

 

[Foxhound5366]

No you get the loaf you bought, until you need a new one, have any new roads been built exclusively with etoll funds?

If not then fahk-off, it is built with tax funding, which again means tax payers have already paid for it.

You've got visibility into the finances, right? You know as well as I do that the government applied the user-pays principle to fund the eTolled highways, precisely so that the rest of South Africa didn't have to pay for the "bread". As such the "bread" was bought on credit, and sure you can ignore paying for the "bread" (while having your "bread debt" increasing as well), but it doesn't really change the conditions of the original purchase or your liability if you keep "eating the bread".

 

[ShaunSA]

Tito should stick to sticking it to his slay queens

Not that he was good at that either

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You know as well as I do that the government applied the user-pays principle to fund the eTolled highways

I know nothing of the sort, neither do you, that would require a level of trust that has most certainly not been earned by anything even remotely connected to our guavamint.

You may as well try to convince me that Zuma is actually paying off that "loan" to VBS, or that it made financial sense for Eskom to buy inferior coal at inflated prices from the Guptas.

 

[pinball wizard]

I know nothing of the sort, neither do you, that would require a level of trust that has most certainly not been earned by anything even remotely connected to our guavamint.

You may as well try to convince me that Zuma is actually paying off that "loan" to VBS, or that it made financial sense for Eskom to buy inferior coal at inflated prices from the Guptas.

There you go. Inflated prices. If the government had of taken an approach to the implementation of eTolls that was somewhat less than being ****ed in the arse without even the courtesy of a reach-around, the sentiment would be vastly different.

What @Foxhound5366 (and others) don't get, is that supporting a system built on theft and greed simply legitimises the looting of the fiscus.

 

[Foxhound5366]

There you go. Inflated prices. If the government had of taken an approach to the implementation of eTolls that was somewhat less than being ****ed in the arse without even the courtesy of a reach-around, the sentiment would be vastly different.

What @Foxhound5366 (and others) don't get, is that supporting a system built on theft and greed simply legitimises the looting of the fiscus.

And what you and others don't understand is that you don't get to pick which laws to abide by and which not to. You don't get to say "I'll support not murdering, but I am in favour of raping and pedophilia." You either support all the laws, of you are just a common criminal who is also inspired by self-enrichment (that thief who stole your laptop just decided to ignore a law so that he could benefit).

 

[pinball wizard]

And what you and others don't understand is that you don't get to pick which laws to abide by and which not to. You don't get to say "I'll support not murdering, but I am in favour of raping and pedophilia." You either support all the laws, of you are just a common criminal who is also inspired by self-enrichment (that thief who stole your laptop just decided to ignore a law so that he could benefit).

What you do get to do is stand up for what is right. We all know we are breaking the law in this. Much like the ANC did in their fight against the unjust apartheid laws.

And to your example of the thief, the government in this eTolls story is the thief and we are standing up for our rights.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You either support all the laws, of you are just a common criminal

Everyone either supports all the laws or those who do become the schmucks who enrich those who don't. Our entire government consists of the latter category.

 

[krycor]

Sooooo just to kick the hornets nest a bit, I'll leave this here ... currently I have a princely prepaid balance in my Sanral account, which pays for my eTolls and tollbooth gantries in all kinds of places. It's even started paying for some connected parking garages (I was puzzled by a Netcare hospital's parking boom opening recently as I pulled up for a ticket, until I saw the notification in the Sanral app):
View attachment 733111

I think so many eToll protesters would be pretty impressed by how slick the whole eToll app and payment process has become in recent years. But it's ok, sit in the long tollgate queues while I go past in the eToll rapid payment lanes, suits me fine

lmao.. trust me they don’t care.


But yes, that’s why I have eToll thingy. My daily commute goes thru zero toll gates because I choose not to. On road trips, airport trips, trips to the people of the north the eToll tag has served me well and I happily pay as legally required to. It’s fun watching people when doing holiday trips and seeing people standing in the queue at toll gates while I ride thru the toll gate.

Wrt parking.. this is via KaChing, which I use already so I have that aspect of it disabled. Nothing beats driving up to Mall of Africa, Sandton Mall, some hospitals and the boom magically opens without me opening window to collect a ticket. And then I watch the people behind me who 30% of the time wait for it to open for them Hahahaha. It’s sad though as it use to be 75% of people who didn’t realize that it’s an app you need to get 1st and that use to be fun to watch. Similar for the exit boom.

I actually want to ask them if they can’t have the account linked from a monetary perspective but controls based on KaChing.

Speaking of which, if you using KaChing, ALWAYS disable auto exit once you in the mall.. why? Because if your car decides to go for a joy ride without you it will not get past the gate without assistance.

 

[Jopie Fourie]

And, when EWC and Appropriations gets pushed through, this is exactly how the South African Government will take all land and force every person into signing rental agreements with the state. Everyone will just simply lose their land. All banks will lose their bonds and go belly up. This is also how the ANC will take your private pension fund, all your investments, any or all money in your savings account. It will be done to "save the economy" and everyone will be issued an IOU and you will see the ANC paying you back R50 a month.

 

[Foxhound5366]

What you do get to do is stand up for what is right. We all know we are breaking the law in this. Much like the ANC did in their fight against the unjust apartheid laws.

And to your example of the thief, the government in this eTolls story is the thief and we are standing up for our rights.

To equate some convenient tax dodging to resisting Apartheid is very noble, but I doubt you did resist Apartheid ... if it was benefiting you, why bother right? All these noble ethical warriors who ONLY protest SABC licences and eTolls (i.e. where they're personally liable to pay a negligible amount of money) are kind of exposing themselves as being exactly what they are: motivated by self-interest and not "doing the right thing". So spare me some of the melodramatic grandstanding please.

 

[Jopie Fourie]

To equate some convenient tax dodging to resisting Apartheid is very noble, but I doubt you did resist Apartheid ... if it was benefiting you, why bother right? All these noble ethical warriors who ONLY protest SABC licences and eTolls (i.e. where they're personally liable to pay a negligible amount of money) are kind of exposing themselves as being exactly what they are: motivated by self-interest and not "doing the right thing". So spare me some of the melodramatic grandstanding please.

House, is that you?

 

[krycor]

Everyone either supports all the laws or those who do become the schmucks who enrich those who don't. Our entire government consists of the latter category.

My point has always been the same.. if you want to take on gov.. cool but don’t lie about being law abiding?

Nothing more I hate than the growing culture of defining reality people live in to meet their needs.

Ie when you make a run out of this country, happily tell the Netherlands, Aus, UK, Nzl, UK in you interview that you have refused to pay your tolls and will continue to do so.. they will be interested as they too have both fuel taxes and toll roads.

 

[Supervan II]

And, when EWC and Appropriations gets pushed through, this is exactly how the South African Government will take all land and force every person into signing rental agreements with the state. Everyone will just simply lose their land. All banks will lose their bonds and go belly up. This is also how the ANC will take your private pension fund, all your investments, any or all money in your savings account. It will be done to "save the economy" and everyone will be issued an IOU and you will see the ANC paying you back R50 a month.

Before that even happens you can be sure of rioting and looting in the streets on a daily basis ...

...


Oh, wait ...

 

[Johnatan56]

And what you and others don't understand is that you don't get to pick which laws to abide by and which not to. You don't get to say "I'll support not murdering, but I am in favour of raping and pedophilia." You either support all the laws, of you are just a common criminal who is also inspired by self-enrichment (that thief who stole your laptop just decided to ignore a law so that he could benefit).

Argument of the Beard

When one argues that no useful distinction can be made between two extremes, just because there is no definable moment or point on the spectrum where the two extremes meet. The name comes from the heap paradox in philosophy, using a man’s beard as an example. At what point does a man go from...

www.logicallyfallacious.com

Circular Reasoning

A type of reasoning in which the proposition is supported by the premises, which is supported by the proposition, creating a circle in reasoning where no useful information is being shared. This fallacy is often quite humorous.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

Take your pick.

I'd go with:

False Equivalence

An argument or claim in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

 

[pinball wizard]

To equate some convenient tax dodging to resisting Apartheid is very noble, but I doubt you did resist Apartheid ... if it was benefiting you, why bother right? All these noble ethical warriors who ONLY protest SABC licences and eTolls (i.e. where they're personally liable to pay a negligible amount of money) are kind of exposing themselves as being exactly what they are: motivated by self-interest and not "doing the right thing". So spare me some of the melodramatic grandstanding please.

I figured you would kneejerk to the word apartheid and miss the point.

 

[Foxhound5366]

I figured you would kneejerk to the word apartheid and miss the point.

And I figured you wouldn't apply any real logic to it, because despite some attempts at logical defense, it's just self-interest at heart and that is a chosen position, not a logical one.

 

[j4ck455]

So is Tit oMboweni going to do a deal with Pick 'n Pay to get eTags baked into these loaves of bread?

Are eTags still being sold by supermarkets, and at what price? If they are cheap, maybe everyone should buy an eTag, and instead of registering it, make an eTag Molotov bunny chow video and put it on YouTube.

 

[pinball wizard]

And I figured you wouldn't apply any real logic to it, because despite some attempts at logical defense, it's just self-interest at heart and that is a chosen position, not a logical one.

Why would I continue with this when you've already decided on what motivates me, my history, the things I value?

The only narrow self interest anywhere near the eTolls is that of SANRAL and the cadres that support their attempt at looting yet more from the citizens of this country.
It is disingenuous to paint non-payers with a self interest brush, as the main reason for the inflated pricing here was the very fact that those targeted can afford to pay.

Also, your use of logic in your reasoning regarding abiding by the law is lacking, so there's that.

Look, you pay for corruption and theft and are hellbent on defending it. PT Barnum would have loved you. Carry on.

 

[RyanPCMR]

So funny when people in SA still think the government in SA has the best interests of the country at heart. The ANC clearly has ensured that their government is beyond reproach at this point with the numerous laws and policies in place to protect their greedy membership. They just love to spend the tax money on their one common goal to enrich as many black comrades as possible. It's done in the spirit of Ubuntu they say.