Toddler who fell to death from cruise ship ‘slipped out of open window’

[pinball wizard]

Yes I’ve read it many times and your picture further supports my opinion.

It still reeks of bullshit.

Even a blind person would be feeling the temperature difference coming off the see air from an open window, if not an obvious draft.

It is very obvious if a window of that size is missing. More so in a row of them next to each other.

It’s the kakkest excuse I’ve ever heard for someone doing something utterly stupid.

Did grandpa mean to drop the kid? Most likely not.

Did he mean to dangle her out of a window for shits and giggles and then lost his grip or footing? Absolutely.

Yip. When dealing with people, the lowest common denominator is usually the correct one.

 

[RedViking]

Yes I’ve read it many times and your picture further supports my opinion.

It still reeks of bullshit.

Even a blind person would be feeling the temperature difference coming off the see air from an open window, if not an obvious draft.

It is very obvious if a window of that size is missing. More so in a row of them next to each other.

It’s the kakkest excuse I’ve ever heard for someone doing something utterly stupid.

Did grandpa mean to drop the kid? Most likely not.

Did he mean to dangle her out of a window for shits and giggles and then lost his grip or footing? Absolutely.

If the kid was being dangled out the window the 'witnesses' would have been able to say which window. But they can't. Cause it didn't happen.

There is a rail running the whole length of the glass wall. Kid could have started banging on a window with glass, moved up a bit and then no more bang.

 

[SauRoNZA]

If the kid was being dangled out the window the 'witnesses' would have been able to say which window. But they can't. Cause it didn't happen.

There is a rail running the whole length of the glass wall. Kid could have started banging on a window with glass, moved up a bit and then no more bang.

Dude, we are talking about an 18 month old here.

I have one in my very own house, they aren’t doing anything of what you are imagining without adult assistance.

This only happened because of the negligence of the caretaker of this child, absolutely nothing else.

 

[RedViking]

Dude, we are talking about an 18 month old here.

I have one in my very own house, they aren’t doing anything of what you are imagining without adult assistance.

This only happened because of the negligence of the caretaker of this child, absolutely nothing else.

I think both the ship and negligence of the caretaker plays a role.

An opening window should NOT be on the level of a rail. This is a design oversight and a safety oversight in a kids playing area. A bigger kid can easily climb up and fall out the window.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I think both the ship and negligence of the caretaker plays a role.

An opening window should NOT be on the level of a rail. This is a design oversight and a safety oversight in a kids playing area. A bigger kid can easily climb up and fall out the window.

While I do agree the design could be improved, one can take historical statistics into account here that this has clearly never been a concern before so is therefore statistically quite safe.

I mean we could all be driving bubble wrapped cars every day too, but it’s clearly not necessary.

Litigation will however **** this up for everyone going forward and we’ll be one step closer to a Wall-E like society.

 

[RedViking]

While I do agree the design could be improved, one can take historical statistics into account here that this has clearly never been a concern before so is therefore statistically quite safe.

I mean we could all be driving bubble wrapped cars every day too, but it’s clearly not necessary.

Here is simple chart I use when adding windows and doors for residential building in New Zealand:
https://www.metroglass.co.nz/catalogue/documents/201_Human_Impact_Safety_Flow_Chart_01.pdf

Now I would imagine the rules are much more stricter for commercials use and ships.

 

[RedViking]

@SauRoNZA also just for interest: NZ Building Clause F4:








I just use this as a reference because I work with it everyday. I am sure there are similar standards for cruise ships etc. if not a lot more strict.


So there should be some kind of rule that an opening windows should be at least XXXXmm from the rail.


That cruise ship is going to be in so much crap.


Edit:
The clauses has nothing to do with the Ship. I just want to show how strict window laws and clauses 'could' be. I used NZ clauses as that is what I am familiar with. I would assume the ships have similar laws when designed.

 

[RedViking]

Also note the shape of the windows:







Photo source

 

[SauRoNZA]

@SauRoNZA also just for interest: NZ Building Clause F4:

View attachment 683695

View attachment 683697

View attachment 683699


I just use this as a reference because I work with it everyday. I am sure there are similar standards for cruise ships etc. if not a lot more strict.


So there should be some kind of rule that an opening windows should be at least XXXXmm from the rail.


That cruise ship is going to be in so much crap.

What’s the significance of NZ in this case?

Vessels follow the laws of the country whose flag they fly, but I’m sure the standards are completely different to maritime architecture than any other kind for various technical reasons like weight and materials for buoyancy etc.

Would be quite interesting actually to know.

Also highly likely if this cruise ship was built like this there are at least a few others that are built the same.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s some kind of structural requirement to allow for wind to pass through the vessel, but still even so the railing and distances could be made for safe certainly.

*****

Something to remember is that one attend mandatory safety training when going onto any of these vessels. That in itself may override any potential design related issues such as such and litigation resulting from it.

 

[RedViking]

What’s the significance of NZ in this case?

Vessels follow the laws of the country whose flag they fly, but I’m sure the standards are completely different to maritime architecture than any other kind for various technical reasons like weight and materials for buoyancy etc.

Would be quite interesting actually to know.

Also highly likely if this cruise ship was built like this there are at least a few others that are built the same.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s some kind of structural requirement to allow for wind to pass through the vessel, but still even so the railing and distances could be made for safe certainly.

*****

Something to remember is that one attend mandatory safety training when going onto any of these vessels. That in itself may override any potential design related issues such as such and litigation resulting from it.

It has nothing to do with NZ. I just want to show how strict window laws and clauses 'could' be. I used NZ clauses as that is what I am familiar with. I would assume the ships have similar laws when designed.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Everyone calling the grandfather a dumbass and assuming he did it... Must be experience speaking. Funny, it seems the exception to me, id automatically assume he didn't.

Either way, proof of either story is totally lacking, so assumptions are meaningless.

 

[konfab]

Most likely gumpa didn't quite see that there was an open window because his eyes are not too good.

Anyway, it is pretty neglectful to balance a child on a precipice like a wooden hand rail anyway. Especially if the only thing that would break its fall is a sheet of glass.

 

[supersunbird]

Even if the version that he wanted her to bang the windows is to be believed, I would not let a child bang against ANY windows that I didn't know what designed to be banged against, say like a hockey ring perspex(?) window?.And even if I was stupid enough to let that happen, I would firmly hold the child the whole time.

And if the boat company is guilty, I'd say half the guilt would be the person who lifted the toddler up, and that person would have to pay as much as the boat company has to.

And stories about "the rail and the opening window is bad, older children could have climbed it themselves", well, that didn't happen.

 

[RedViking]

Imagine a kid gets up on a chair, climbs on the rail and starts walking along the rail and windows..... bloooop down through the open window.


There is no way the ship is not at fault here. Was it clever for the caretaker to put the kid on the rail. Nope. Was it his fault the situation was an accident waiting to happen. Nope.

The cruise ship will need to pay for their oversight in design standards and putting a rail that can easily be climbed right NEXT to an open window.

The grandfather is gonna live with this awful moment for the rest of his life.

Tragic.

 

[RedViking]

Even if the version that he wanted her to bang the windows is to be believed, I would not let a child bang against ANY windows that I didn't know what designed to be banged against, say like a hockey ring perspex(?) window?.And even if I was stupid enough to let that happen, I would firmly hold the child the whole time.

And if the boat company is guilty, I'd say half the guilt would be the person who lifted the toddler up, and that person would have to pay as much as the boat company has to.

And stories about "the rail and the opening window is bad, older children could have climbed it themselves", well, that didn't happen.

Let us put a fire place next to gas containers. Just because it hasn't exploded in 10 years doesn't make it right.

 

[Grant]

It has nothing to do with NZ. I just want to show how strict window laws and clauses 'could' be. I used NZ clauses as that is what I am familiar with. I would assume the ships have similar laws when designed.

there should be laws to prevent grandparents dangling toddlers out of windows

 

[pinball wizard]

there should be laws to prevent grandparents dangling toddlers out of windows

It's been long proven that you can't legislate stupid away.

 

[Willie Trombone]

there should be laws to prevent grandparents dangling toddlers out of windows

*yawn*

 

[My_King]

ha ha reading the comments and the bad journalism here, seems everyone "knows" what happened.

 

[pinball wizard]

ha ha reading the comments and the bad journalism here, seems everyone "knows" what happened.

Only here?
It's the interwebs buddy. We all know exactly what happened with everything.