Trevor Noah slammed for suggesting Israel not defend itself: 'You're downplaying the trauma of millions'

[Tokolotshe]

All of that is true, and I agree, Hamas does want those casualties, but the IDF is supposed to be moral when compared to terrorists, it's hard to argue that when their strikes keep killing civilians. I know collateral damage seems acceptable, that doesn't make the killing of innocent people any better.

Let's put it this way. Why are we criticizing the IDF in this case, where the aggressor is clearly Hamas targeting civilians, supported by at least 60% of the Palestinians?

How did the IDF become the bad guys in this incident, when they're dealt with a hand impossible?

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

Don't worry. They all look the same to me as well.

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/s for the slow witted PC folks

you can't fool me. Those are both Osbama

 

[FrankCastle]

Why don't you answer the question?

Zaynab bint Al-Harith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[FrankCastle]

63 was OLD age in the seventh century, really old.

As for the strength of 100 men..... how was this established? did he simultaneously arm-wrestle that many? of are we relying on religious texts for that? strength does also not equal longevity IMHO. As far as I am aware the emnity dates back to a betrayal of some sort by the jewish population of somewhere or other i really couldn't be bothered to look. I had simply never heard the poisoning story before today, and it sounds really convenient.
The shambolic writings about the sayings of a man who's organisation immediately went to war with itself upon his death just don't fill me with historic certainty. Sounds like the shembe church.

And yes, I know christianity has an even longer history of splits, divisions, schisms and war. Most of these things have to do with power and money and precious little to do with God.

just my two randelas (adjusted for inflation)

Zaynab bint Al-Harith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Tokolotshe]

You are absolutely right.
Now put yourself in the shoes of the elected govt of Israel.
If the take the higher ground position and avoid innocent deaths by doing nothing? They will not be re-elected, in fact they may be lucky to survive their current term.
If they take every precaution practical ie roofknocker warnings and extremely precise counter strikes they may limit casualties and by diplomacy point out that most of those casualties are due to hamas operating in built up areas and preventing evacuation.

Pretty sure I know what I would do. There is no real alternative. A boots on the ground campaign would be catastrophically costly in lives.

Snap!

Funny how the elephant in the room is invisible.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Let's put it this way. Why are we criticizing the IDF in this case, where the aggressor is clearly Hamas targeting civilians, supported by at least 60% of the Palestinians?

How did the IDF become the bad guys in this incident, when they're dealt with a hand impossible?

incoming "reee,I don't support hamarse" but I won't carry on about them like the IDF

 

[FrankCastle]

Yes this thread has run its course and can be closed.
Eyes now on whether Benny will put up a fight.

 

[Cray]

Let's put it this way. Why are we criticizing the IDF in this case, where the aggressor is clearly Hamas targeting civilians, supported by at least 60% of the Palestinians?

Citation for that 60%?

How did the IDF become the bad guys in this incident, when they're dealt with a hand impossible?

If the IDF don't want to be the bad guys maybe they should try harder not to kill innocent people. No one is suggesting that Hamas aren't horrific, but if you deal with monsters by killing innocent people what does that make you?

 

[Cray]

You are absolutely right.
Now put yourself in the shoes of the elected govt of Israel.
If the take the higher ground position and avoid innocent deaths by doing nothing? They will not be re-elected, in fact they may be lucky to survive their current term.

Taking the higher ground in Israel would mean recognizing that a whole lot of Palestinian refugees should have the right to return to the place of their birth... I agree that Israel are in a terrible situation now, but it's one of their own making.

They had decades to negotiate a settlement with the PLO and nothing came of it... The PLO never did anything like what Hamas are doing and yet Israel didn't give them the time of day either...

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

Citation for that 60%?


If the IDF don't want to be the bad guys maybe they should try harder not to kill innocent people. No one is suggesting that Hamas aren't horrific, but if you deal with monsters by killing innocent people what does that make you?

paying the price for iron dome, which does not kill palestinians is trying pretty hard in my opinion. Massive counterbattery strikes would achieve the same aim but kill more innocents. I'm sorry but you cannot take the view that Israel is doing nothing to mitigate civilian casualties. Iron dome is prohibitively expensive.

I also don't think we need a citation to agree that the majority of palestinians, even if they don't support hamas, are opposed to Israel. Which amounts to the same thing.

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

Taking the higher ground in Israel would mean recognizing that a whole lot of Palestinian refugees should have the right to return to the place of their birth... I agree that Israel are in a terrible situation now, but it's one of their own making.

They had decades to negotiate a settlement with the PLO and nothing came of it... The PLO never did anything like what Hamas are doing and yet Israel didn't give them the time of day either...

So is your solution that they surrender?

The PLO was no gatherings of genial midwives either. The lack of agreement is every bit as much the doing of the palestinians as it is Israel's.

give us your five point plan of how you think the matter should be handled. Rather than just slate what is being done. what would you do if u were the israeli PM.?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

This is a discussion forum, there is no such thing as qualifications here, if you feel your experience makes your assessment superior go ahead and make your case and I will listen but am not just going to accept your judgement on a situation just because you say that you have military experience.

That goes doubly in a thread where you have come down very firmly on one side of the debate without accepting even a hint of criticism of your chosen side.

Oh, so an engineer or medical doctor need not be taken seriously on a discussion forum when commenting on their subjects then? Why bother discussing at all?

This sounds very PC to me. All who run the race get the certificate. Nobody wins.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

If the IDF don't want to be the bad guys maybe they should try harder not to kill innocent people. No one is suggesting that Hamas aren't horrific, but if you deal with monsters by killing innocent people what does that make you?

They have no choice but to defend their citizens from attack by destroying the launching sites Hamas purposely places in residential areas to get the most propaganda mileage out of when the civilians they force to remain close to the launch sites are killed.

What would you do if you were the IDF with a responsibility of protecting Israeli's from attacks by Hamas?

 

[3Gee]

It's been stated many times , Israel's aim is purely to weaken Hamas and not exterminate them ,

Israel needs Hamas as an excuse to justify the occupation.

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

Zaynab bint Al-Harith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

so according to that he survived. Also according to it she was spared. earlier source said she was killed on his orders. Was it a lamb or a goat? (to be fair well prepared goat is indistinguishable from lamb) There are as many versions as writers.

First and only version (wikipedia) that I read said he fell ill and died shortly after a pilgrimage.

what the hell is cupping?
Was the catholic church or the orthodox church in the right at the time of the great schism? I could care less.

edit: By the way is that where the term bint comes from? as in " you silly bint"

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

Oh, so an engineer or medical doctor need not be taken seriously on a discussion forum when commenting on their subjects then? Why bother discussing at all?

This sounds very PC to me. All who run the race get the certificate. Nobody wins.

I am in a similar position to you in this matter. However lets never forget that soldiers fight wars but do not declare them or determine the scope and aims of same. That is the sole prerogative of elected civilians.
So while I expect to be listened to on the subject of what CAN be done I am prepared to listen to what SHOULD be done. And then comment on if THAT, CAN be done.

 

[The Voice]

Who made you the fun police? Just leave..you like the people that watch porn on tv and then call in to complain.

Instant reaction once an argument is lost. Happened in all the other Israel v Palestine threads, too.

 

[Bonywasawarrioraway]

They have no choice but to defend their citizens from attack by destroying the launching sites Hamas purposely places in residential areas to get the most propaganda mileage out of when the civilians they force to remain close to the launch sites are killed.

What would you do if you were the IDF with a responsibility of protecting Israeli's from attacks by Hamas?

Yeah, i said and asked the same thing. Its very easy to criticise Israel on this issue but I am glad I am not their PM.

 

[Cray]

Oh, so an engineer or medical doctor need not be taken seriously on a discussion forum when commenting on their subjects then? Why bother discussing at all?

This sounds very PC to me. All who run the race get the certificate. Nobody wins.

Except we only have your word about your qualifications... Surely you are confident enough in your abilities and qualifications to convince lay people that you know what you are talking about...?

It seems like you don't even want a discussion, you want me to accept your word as gospel without explaining yourself... I would expect any subject matter expert to be able to defend their position logically, not just make pronouncements that can't be challenged.

 

[Cray]

paying the price for iron dome, which does not kill palestinians is trying pretty hard in my opinion. Massive counterbattery strikes would achieve the same aim but kill more innocents. I'm sorry but you cannot take the view that Israel is doing nothing to mitigate civilian casualties. Iron dome is prohibitively expensive.

I also don't think we need a citation to agree that the majority of palestinians, even if they don't support hamas, are opposed to Israel. Which amounts to the same thing.

Am always skeptical when people hand waive away a need for evidence and make sweeping generalization about what people think without evidence.