Trevor Noah slammed for suggesting Israel not defend itself: 'You're downplaying the trauma of millions'

[Cray]

What the hell would be the point of comparing the IDF with anyone other than their direct enemies? This makes no sense whatsoever.

So you are saying that because Hamas are terrorists it's okay for IDF to behave worse than if they were fighting a regular army.... ?

So we can just drop the pretense that Israel is a civilized country because their army is free to act like monsters if they happen to be fighting monsters?

So much for the moral high ground..

 

[rambo919]

So you are saying that because Hamas are terrorists it's okay for IDF to behave worse than if they were fighting a regular army.... ?

So we can just drop the pretense that Israel is a civilized country because their army is free to act like monsters if they happen to be fighting monsters?

So much for the moral high ground..

No I am saying that other armies do not face the same conditions..... they have many luxuries the IDF does not.

If you are going to compare it must be apples to apples.

Whether or not the IDF misbehaves has nothing to do with it.

Ironically I am actually very critical of Israel in general but I make an effort to be more fair than emotional about it.

 

[Cray]

No I am saying that other armies do not face the same conditions..... they have many luxuries the IDF does not.

Do you have any idea how much aid the US gives Israel in terms of military spending, I would suggest they are doing pretty well in terms of funding.

If you are going to compare it must be apples to apples.

Whether or not the IDF misbehaves has nothing to do with it.

It has everything to do with it.... Every time someone tries to criticize anything the IDF does, it's met by the standard counterpoint... "But Hamas....". Hamas are holes, we all know this, it doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to level criticism at the IDF and that they cannot do better than they have been doing...

 

[rambo919]

Do you have any idea how much aid the US gives Israel in terms of military spending, I would suggest they are doing pretty well in terms of funding.

This has nothing to do with the luxuries of fighting outside your borders or being safe from random surprise attack.

It has everything to do with it.... Every time someone tries to criticize anything the IDF does, it's met by the standard counterpoint... "But Hamas....". Hamas are holes, we all know this, it doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to level criticism at the IDF and that they cannot do better than they have been doing...

Then compare the IDF to another army in similar circumstances, no one is stopping you.

 

[Caliph]

No I am saying that other armies do not face the same conditions..... they have many luxuries the IDF does not.

If you are going to compare it must be apples to apples.

Whether or not the IDF misbehaves has nothing to do with it.

Ironically I am actually very critical of Israel in general but I make an effort to be more fair than emotional about it.

@Grant

If you'd opened the website and read the testimonies on there you'd know that most of the atrocities are committed against civilians. IDF vs civilians. Why bring Hamas in?

 

[rambo919]

@Grant

If you'd opened the website and read the testimonies on there you'd know that most of the atrocities are committed against civilians. IDF vs civilians. Why bring Hamas in?

Because the atrocities, real or imagined, of Hamas are worse?

The IDF in many cases are forced to increase collateral damage because of how bad Hamas is. This is real life not a playground where the teacher can stop the fight.

 

[Cray]

This has nothing to do with the luxuries of fighting outside your borders or being safe from random surprise attack.

Last I checked the West Bank and Gaza were outside the borders of Israel.

Then compare the IDF to another army in similar circumstances, no one is stopping you.

Yeah, soon as you can point out another country that has occupied and constrained another territory for 70 years let me know....

 

[rambo919]

Last I checked the West Bank and Gaza were outside the borders of Israel.

And yet most of the fighting does not stay there..... because their rockets just won't put.

Yeah, soon as you can point out another country that has occupied and constrained another territory for 70 years let me know....

Hamas keeps starting the fights.... If Israel had been allowed to wipe them out there would be no occupation today.... there would be no need to occupy anything.

 

[Cray]

And yet most of the fighting does not stay there..... because their rockets just won't put.




Hamas keeps starting the fights.... If Israel had been allowed to wipe them out there would be no occupation today.... there would be no need to occupy anything.

Yeah, people stopped Israel from committing genocide, bloody SJW's...

 

[rambo919]

Yeah, people stopped Israel from committing genocide, bloody SJW's...

Not the so called Palestinians which are actually Jordanians.... Hamas.

If someone keeps shooting at you, you shoot back until he is unable to shoot back..... otherwise he keeps shooting at you.

The logic is very simple.

 

[maq_]

What the hell would be the point of comparing the IDF with anyone other than their direct enemies? This makes no sense whatsoever.

So you admitting by default that IDF is no better than Hamas.

 

[rambo919]

So you admitting by default that IDF is no better than Hama's.

No I am saying be honest with comparisons.... don't compare someone to an impossible ideal and then act surprise when that ideal is not met.

 

[maq_]

Not the so called Palestinians which are actually Jordanians.... Hamas.

If someone keeps shooting at you, you shoot back until he is unable to shoot back..... otherwise he keeps shooting at you.

The logic is very simple.

Yeah but the soldiers are talking about the crimes they committed against ordinary civilians.

Gosh learn to read...

 

[rambo919]

Let me put this differently.

Saying the IDF should willingly disarm and stand down is the same as saying we should all hand in our weapons to the police.... the end result is the same.

 

[rambo919]

Yeah but the soldiers are talking about the crimes they committed against ordinary civilians.

Gosh learn to read...

And I am not defending abuses of power. I am saying be realistic.

 

[Cray]

Not the so called Palestinians which are actually Jordanians.... Hamas.

Source for that?

 

[maq_]

And I am not defending abuses of power. I am saying be realistic.

Maybe not defending but you sure as well justifying it...

 

[Cray]

Let me put this differently.

Saying the IDF should willingly disarm and stand down is the same as saying we should all hand in our weapons to the police.... the end result is the same.

Telling the IDF to behave better and with more humanity towards Palestinians is not the same as asking them to disarm.

 

[rambo919]

Source for that?

Google usually helps.....

The history is complicated but most of them are actually ethnically Jordanian, recent immigrants during the last few hundred years driven by Islamic empires that never actually permanently settled.

Almost everything called Palestinian before the Jewish state...... actually referred to Jews. The original Palestinians were Jews not Arabs.

Palestinian did not refer to an ethnicity until the 1970's when the Palestinian ethnicity was invented.

 

[rambo919]

Maybe not defending but you sure as well justifying it...

Real life does not care about our subjective feelings....

Telling the IDF to behave better and with more humanity towards Palestinians is not the same as asking them to disarm.

That's is not what you are demanding, you are demanding they stop their military control of a region that constantly tries to kill them.

Think a moment about the psychology at play here.... if an army is staffed with people that from childhood figuratively has the barrel of a gun pointed their heads and always threatens to at any moment shoot..... why expect them to love their blood enemies when they grow up? Why not expect abuses?

On the other hand what you ignore is for the most part no Israeli steps foot outside of Israel.... the so called Palestinians are policed by Arabs and the IDF only acts as it needs to.

Furthermore it's fine to criticize the IDF.... but you must equally criticize Hamas and not ignore them in attempts to isolate IDF behaviour as if Hamas does not exist. The two armed forces exist in a symbiotic relationship after all.