Trevor Noah slammed for suggesting Israel not defend itself: 'You're downplaying the trauma of millions'

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
15,413
All of those questions could apply to anyone of any race, are you suggesting people of a certain race are more inclined to do any of that?

Background checks are done on Jewish immigrants coming to Israel, why can't similar checks be done on Palestinians wanting to return?
What makes you think they are not checking everyone?
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
15,413
I have heard of moving the goalposts but 2000 years must be a new record...
No shifting of goalposts.... Palestine did not suddenly spring into existence, the Romans invented it.

And my point was Palestinian never referred to an ethnicity and when it did it often referred to Jews.

Jews were the original Palestinians.
 

Cray

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
26,085
Do you think the population did not earn oppression for how they treated jews for centuries? Nothing happens in a vacuum
Not all hatred and violation is justified, people can be brainwashed and fed lies.

I spoke of police not IDF.... though I admit that they are deployed at strategic points.... the IDF does not police the people, they exercise military control.


If this is the full truth then they should not be there. I myself believe that all illegal settlers deserve to be attacked and worse.
Not a fan of violence and I don't think it will achieve anything, if the settlers are moved out of the West bank there is a possibility that a two-state solution could work.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
15,413
I'm gonna do the effort to post this and then bow out, I have better things to do


 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
15,413
Not all hatred and violation is justified, people can be brainwashed and fed lies.
The way Hamas does?

Not a fan of violence
What anyone is a "fan" of has nothing to do with anything. Things are as they are.

and I don't think it will achieve anything, if the settlers are moved out of the West bank there is a possibility that a two-state solution could work.
And I don't think that will work.... Hamas DOES after all still want to massacre all Jews after all.

They wanted genocide before the west bank was occupied and they will want it after.... appeasement never works.
 

Sollie

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
11,515
All of those questions could apply to anyone of any race, are you suggesting people of a certain race are more inclined to do any of that?

Background checks are done on Jewish immigrants coming to Israel, why can't similar checks be done on Palestinians wanting to return?
I see Mephisto already suggested the answer, somewhat tounge in cheek. It's take no leap of imagination to think that where kids are raised to be soldiers, bad things will happen.

Unfortunately, much as we might want to see a new heaven of harmony there, we have to face the facts and costs of failure. Statistically, it will fail - there is too much history to now mash those groups together.
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
52,206
@Grant

If you'd opened the website and read the testimonies on there you'd know that most of the atrocities are committed against civilians. IDF vs civilians. Why bring Hamas in?
I opened it to be faced with a calendar.

Why bring Hamas in - they are the opposing force.

Ps
Still waiting for the pro Israel marches in Gaza btw
 

Caliph

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
443
I opened it to be faced with a calendar.

Why bring Hamas in - they are the opposing force.

Ps
Still waiting for the pro Israel marches in Gaza btw

I suppose you have no idea how to use the web or a website? We were speaking about Breaking the Silence and the IDF. See how you cannot condemn the actions of the IDF and Hamas is quickly brought in? Face the facts of whats happening every day in the West Bank pre- 10 May 2021.

Keep waiting.
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309

These are stories from actual Israeli soldiers... maybe you should have a read to educate yourself

Seeing as Israel has national servicemen like SA had with the SADF, it can be expected that some will speak up against Israel, just like some SA NSM did.

This does not mean the entire force feels the same way and is most likely the viewpoint of a tiny dissident minority as it was in SA.

Now tell me whether the dissident Palestinians have the same freedom to speak out?
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
You asking a hypothetical question to try and derail from the fact that there are Israeli soldiers who are speaking out about the atrocities that they have committed.

Why not just admit that Israeli are committing serious human rights offences and taking away the dignity and rights from fellow human beings...

Have Hamas committed any atrocities? I ft hey have, are they allowed to speak out without fear of a beheading?
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
Why don't you guys ever contrast the behaviour of the IDF to other armed forces throughout the world? If you have to compare the IDF to Hamas in order to justify their dodgy behaviour, that in itself is a problem for a country that touts itself as an enlightened, Western democracy.

Because Israel has a conscript army. The rest of the world doesn't.

And the only way you compare actions in a war is between belligerents.
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
Do you have any idea how much aid the US gives Israel in terms of military spending, I would suggest they are doing pretty well in terms of funding.

Who funds Hamas and how much aid are they given? Those rockets aren't cheap.
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
Last I checked the West Bank and Gaza were outside the borders of Israel.


Yeah, soon as you can point out another country that has occupied and constrained another territory for 70 years let me know....

Russia and China.
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
Telling the IDF to behave better and with more humanity towards Palestinians is not the same as asking them to disarm.

Then why don't Hamas wear clown outfits instead of throwing rockets at Israelis if they want to be treated humanely?
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
I was just wondering which particular source you used because what you said is very much an controversial view touted by people who want to justify the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel.


Again, please cite your sources because "google" comes up with a number of results which say that this is a fantasy...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)

Population of Palestine

1922 - Jews 84 000, Muslims 589 000

1931 - Jews 175 000 Muslims 760 000

1947 - Jews 630 000 Muslims 1 181 000


To have a land occupied you would have had to have lost sovereignty at one point. I must ask, was there ever in all of history a nation by the name of Palestine? If not, then how is it occupied?

Contrary to what we are told, you basically have two groups of immigrants, the Jews and the Arabs whom are presenting themselves as Palestinians. The Palestinians like to say this is their ancestral home land, but if it is, then how can one explain a total lack of any historical documentation to support this claim? If you go back prior to 1900, there is not one historical writing that speaks of them, does not matter if you are looking in Islamic, Ottoman or Western Sources.

But there is more:

One of the greatest problems you have is the lack of census, this came due to the Ottomans until the 1800’s had a fatwa against taking a census so none exist from their records prior to this time, the ones you see today are backward projections, taking the word of the Arabs that they were there for thousands of years, but were they? There is a little known census that was taken in the area by the same people that took census across Europe in the 1500’s to the 1700’s, this was by the Jesuits, they had with permission and oversight by the Ottoman authorities conducted a census in 1697, what they came up with is most enlightening in regards to the claims that are made, what is more interesting is never once did the Ottoman authorities dispute this census, you can still find it today, there are still publications of it. Here is the census:

"Palaestina ex monumentis veteribus illustrata" - a detailed geographical survey of Palestine in 1696 written in Latin by Adriaan Reland published by Willem Broedelet, Utrecht, in 1714.
 Residents of the REGION mainly concentrated in cities: Jerusalem, Acre, Safed, Jaffa, Tiberius and Gaza.
 In most cities, the majority of residents are Christians, Jews and others, very few Muslims who generally are Bedouin, who came to serve as Seasonal workers in agriculture or building.


Nablus: 120 Muslims, 70 Samaritans
 Nazareth: 700 people - all Christians
 Umm al-Fahm: 50 people-10 families, ALL Christian
 Gaza: 550 people- 300 Jews,250 Christian(Jews engaged in agriculture Christians deal with the trading and transporting the products)


Tiberius: 300 residents, all Jews.
 Safed: about 200 inhabitants, all Jews
 Jerusalem: 5000 people, most of them (3,500) Jews, the rest- Christian (1000), Muslim (500) 
 Note* (no Muslims in Gaza)!
 
 Now one may ask, if there is any truth to this, suggest you look at the documented eye witness accounts of the day, they back up what is shown in the census:

"There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent (valley of Jezreel, Galilea); not for thirty miles in either direction... One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee... Nazareth is forlorn... Jericho lies a moldering ruin... Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature.
 - Mark Twain, "The Innocents Abroad", 1867 –"There are many proofs, such as ancient ruins, broken aqueducts, and remains of old roads, which show that it has not always been so desolate as it seems now. In the portion of the plain between Mount Carmel and Jaffa one sees but rarely a village or other sights of human life. There some rude mills here which are turned by the stream. A ride of half an hour more brought us to the ruins ..."
 - B. W. Johnson, in "Young Folks in Bible Lands": Chapter IV, 1892 -
 
 "The land in Palestine is lacking in people to till its fertile soil".
 - British archaeologist Thomas Shaw, mid-1700s -

So what we see is a land with little or no population, so when did the Arab population come?
How about we let British history, who in the early 1900’s had a royal naval commission tell us:

"The area was under populated and remained economically stagnant until the arrival of the first Zionist pioneers in the 1880's, who came to rebuild the Jewish land. The country had remained "The Holy Land" in the religious and historic consciousness of mankind, which associated it with the Bible and the history of the Jewish people. Jewish development of the country also attracted large numbers of other immigrants - both Jewish and Arab.
 - The report of the British Royal Commission, 1913 –
 
 People who claim the Arabs were in the land first fail to acknowledge the facts, the Arab migration to the land during the 1920's and 1930's has been well documented. In fact, the British Hope-Simpson Commission addressed this issue in its recommendation of 1930.


The British governor of the Sinai (1922-1936) reported in the Palestine Royal Commission Report that illegal immigration to Palestine was not only occurring from Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria.
 In 1939, British PM, Winston Churchill, stated " the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
 In 1934, the Governor of the Syrian district of Hauran admitted that within just a few months, more than 30,000 Arabs left Hauran for Palestine.


The 1844 Ottoman Census shows a Jewish majority living in Jerusalem, Hebron, S'fat, and Gaza City. To claim that the Jews were not there prior to Israel's establishment is simply false.
 
 As I said, both were migrants, the Jews came due to persecution, the Arabs due to economic reasons, both wanted to lay claim to the land, the Jews had a claim on historical right, the Arabs had to have a claim, thus started the narrative of the Palestinians.
 

Cosmik Debris

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
6,309
All of those questions could apply to anyone of any race, are you suggesting people of a certain race are more inclined to do any of that?

Background checks are done on Jewish immigrants coming to Israel, why can't similar checks be done on Palestinians wanting to return?

They are done. There are many non Jewish citizens in Israel.
 
Top