Tshwane only paying 10c per kWh of feed-in electricity

[krieg]

Actually most have that feature even the cheaper ones, mine has it and it's not one of the expensive type.

Just out of interest looking on Facebook marketplace most of the inverters are ones with unknown names and it is a lot smaller (<1000 watts), that circuitry is the bare minimum. Axpert and Voltron and Mecer etc the beefy ones mounted on the wall I'm sure they have all the necessary safety features and more. Also if you can afford the decent units you most probably have it professionally installed but I am specifically talking about the cheaper units.

 

[IdlePhaedrus]

Why, is it not allowed or something?

No, it isn't allowed. If discovered you may be liable for a hefty fine, at the very least they will threaten to cut you off if discovered.

SSEG is only allowed with prepaid meters with a no feedback mechanism fitted, or with a bi-directional meter for feeback.

Further, strictly speaking, you are only allowed a 3.5kw grid tied system in Cape Town, and a 3.68kw grid tied system elsewhere, as per the Nersa rules not amended, and amended respectively.

AND, if your inverter is grid tied in ANY way it has to be on the Nersa approved list.

Ask me I know.

 

[AchmatK]

Just out of interest looking on Facebook marketplace most of the inverters are ones with unknown names and it is a lot smaller (QUOTE]Cheaper and smaller inverters are grid tied and can't feed back through the grid connection.

Only a hybrid/grid interactive inverters can feedback as the grid input is bidirectional.

 

[krieg]

This is what I am talking about. Grid tied is even bigger. If you plug the output of that into your wall plugs you are going to energize the line back to the big distribution box.

 

[AchmatK]

View attachment 1273950

This is what I am talking about. Grid tied is even bigger. If you plug the output of that into your wall plugs you are going to energize the line back to the big distribution box.

I doubt that thing will be able to provide any significant power if you were to plug the output into the wall and feed through the grid.

All the houses in the road would simultaneously pull from that one source causing it to fail and trip instantly.

Same thing if you were to decide to plug the output of a generator into your wall plug without first disconnecting the mains. It will not be able to supply the surge in load.

 

[krieg]

I doubt that thing will be able to provide any significant power if you were to plug the output into the wall and feed through the grid.

All the houses in the road would simultaneously pull from that one source causing it to fail and trip instantly.

Same thing if you were to decide to plug the output of a generator into your wall plug without first disconnecting the mains. It will not be able to supply the surge in load.

Are you saying now that there can be voltage on the line but because the load is in excess of what the inverter can output it will trip? The previous post was because you said it is impossible.

 

[Koosvanwyk]

How do you know ?

Since is stealing legal, would think it is rather obvious

 

[AchmatK]

Are you saying now that there can be voltage on the line but because the load is in excess of what the inverter can output it will trip? The previous post was because you said it is impossible.

Impossible with a proper inverter. Doing your own thing by connecting the output of an inverter like this or even a generator output into a wall plug without disconnecting the mains is stupidity.

The output of an inverter like this is meant to supply loads on its own circut with the grid on the input. Only way for that to feed into the grid is to manually swap the grid from input to output.

 

[krieg]

Impossible with a proper inverter. Doing your own thing by connecting the output of an inverter like this or even a generator output into a wall plug without disconnecting the mains is stupidity.

The output of an inverter like this is meant to supply loads on its own circut with the grid on the input. Only way for that to feed into the grid is to manually swap the grid from input to output.

The argument is not whether it is stupid it is whether it is possible and you seem to agree that it is possible.
I do not understand the last sentence.

 

[AchmatK]

The argument is not whether it is stupid it is whether it is possible and you seem to agree that it is possible.
I do not understand the last sentence.

Anything is possible

 

[supersunbird]

The argument is not whether it is stupid it is whether it is possible and you seem to agree that it is possible.
I do not understand the last sentence.

If it's always gonna trip immediately, sounds like something impossible in practical terms to me.

 

[IdlePhaedrus]

How do you know ?

Because I have been there and done that. It cost R30k to fix on top of the R70k I spent on the initial 3kw system I installed in 2014 on my roof before the CoCT rules were fully clarified.

Solar was a lot more expensive in 2014, and the 30k to fix really hurt.

Just so you know.

 

[bixt]

Because I have been there and done that

How did it come to this. Did the TV licence inspector report on your unauthorised invertor while doing his inspection?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Koos can you please explain to me how you can say that feeding excess solar power back into the grid is stealing.

To me it's not obvious

Because you're turning the meter back, offsetting the reading. And effectively getting the same rate back that you would pay for a unit.

Simple example:
Current reading = 10 kWh
Next month = 12 kWh, but was supposed to be 20 kWh.
You effectively got 8 kWh of grid power for free

A meter that maintains the correct reading would ensure that you pay the correct rate for what you're using, while getting paid the agreed upon rate for backfeeding...

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

But the whole situation is pretty depressing. Eskom does not have sufficient generating capacity and we are sitting with a growing generating source in the form of SSEG with excess generation going to waste. Every kWh of solar not used is generated by coal .

Well that's pretty much why they make it as difficult as possible to feed back in.

Coal not being burnt is coal not being mined. And they have to pay you using money they no longer make from generating. It's an entire value chain that's affected.

There's no question that SA needs the additional generation capacity from private installs, but politicians with vested interests don't. Guess who wins that battle.

I'd happily feed back in for 10c/kWh if we had politicians who had the country's interests at heart. But I'd rather use it to waste power on crap like mining rigs to make money for myself...

 

[krieg]

If it's always gonna trip immediately, sounds like something impossible in practical terms to me.

You are putting too much faith in a Chinese made circuit breaker, open up one of those Chint breakers and see the difference.

 

[richjdavies]

Quick summary of the article...
Municipalities have their own tariffs.

Check them, understand them, before making investment decisions that rely on them.

Ps - you can't rely on them! They change every year with no long term plan.

Most municipalities in WC have feedback tariffs much better than 10c, but it is still always less than what you pay and they will never pay you Rands, just credits which will often wipe out.

 

[mastercylinder]

You are putting too much faith in a Chinese made circuit breaker, open up one of those Chint breakers and see the difference.

With that sort of load, if it doesn't trip, you will let the magic smoke out of the box.

I mean, it's not something to rely on for safety, but the grid is effectively close to a dead short at this point.

maybe if you're on a farm at the end of a long line or something, you could have an issue. In the suburbs? Unlikely. You might as well feed a shunt.

 

[charlieharper]

Decent saving but in terms of this article you essentially get 'payed' what you pay for electricity kw/h for kw/h and you also don't have any fee's right?

Just another half informed MyBB article.

Yes exactly.. it's not like they buy back at a different rate - that's what they do in the US / Australia - and apparently Western Cape.

It essentially just slows down the meter cause we're drawing less power from Eskom.

 

[Oldfut]

Because you're turning the meter back, offsetting the reading. And effectively getting the same rate back that you would pay for a unit.

Simple example:
Current reading = 10 kWh
Next month = 12 kWh, but was supposed to be 20 kWh.
You effectively got 8 kWh of grid power for free

A meter that maintains the correct reading would ensure that you pay the correct rate for what you're using, while getting paid the agreed upon rate for backfeeding...

Hmmm, I would say Eskom or whoever was selling you electricity got 8kWh for free. Whoever generated the 8kWh got them at the cost of the generation for him, rather than paying whatever the overall supplier would have charged (hopefully the generator produces for less than he is charged but I think this is by no means obvious when all costs are considered).

The last generation project I was involved with the municipality that "bought " the electricity would only pay the Eskom Megaflex rates but at least they didn't charge the input electricity to the project at commercial rates, also only at the tariffs they were paying to Eskom, all much less than their normal commercial supply rates. Everything was metered separately.