Tuks phasing out Afrikaans as medium of instruction

Knyro

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whatever this is it is not a compromise, you go tell the french they should be doing research in English because 'de facto' it easy for you to say everybody is willing to compromise, because it is not you who will be effected, and who says we cannot cater for 11 languages, if the tribe leaders developed their language maybe we could. Who's fault is it that blacks don't have a ATKV?
The French are doing reasearch in English you numpty. Even in France alone the number of papers published in English dominates the amount published in French.
 

Nicodeamus

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The French are doing reasearch in English you numpty. Even in France alone the number of papers published in English dominates the amount published in French.
I had to do my masters in French, it depends on the subject.
 

Nicodeamus

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I'm talking about publishing research papers, not postgrad education.
So in France the system is a bit different a lot of the research is for parastatels, anything in Engineering and physics will be in French. The research papers mean little for practical development.

If you’re working in theoretical physics then it will be published in both a French and then English.

France also has a lot of foreign students from Spanish countries, Italy and Romania. The language makes it easy for them to blend it. There are these”international” degrees in English, but the joke is that they are not worth studying.

They also have their own ratings system and Grande Écoles (their version of the IVY leagues). In short they couldn’t care less about English, because they don’t always need to.
 
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Knyro

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So in France the system is a bit different a lot of the research is for parastatels, anything in Engineering and physics will be in French. The research papers mean little for practical development.

If you’re working in theoretical physics then it will be published in both a French and then English.
French research papers are dwarfed 5:1 by English papers in France.
 

Nicodeamus

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French research papers are dwarfed 5:1 by English papers in France.
It doesn’t mean much when most of the research isn’t applied.

I personally think that the research paper system worldwide needs a big overhaul. There is a lot of bullshiting going around. It is not a good way of measuring research.
 

Nicodeamus

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The publish or perish culture is one of the reasons that US Universities have had their prices go up in years. A lot of the budget goes into keeping multiple laboratories open or having Universities compete on reaearch that they should be cooperating in.
 

Knyro

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It doesn’t mean much when most of the research isn’t applied.

I personally think that the research paper system worldwide needs a big overhaul. There is a lot of bullshiting going around. It is not a good way of measuring research.
WTF.

Amazing how an engineer can say thay that the millenia of pure maths and science engineering is based on doesn't mean much when it isn't applied. Theoretical results today are the foundation of engineering tomorrow.
 

Nicodeamus

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WTF.

Amazing how an engineer can say thay that the centuries of pure maths and science engineering is based on doesn't mean much when it isn't applied. Theoretical results today are the foundation of engineering tomorrow.
Not entirely, it depends if the research is objectively driven or not. A good research facility has a combination of both theoretical and practical people. This is how we do RD in the Nuclear field. The Idea is to keep a research culture alive inside of the institution. This is also how CERN operates and how the US military does research.

From a budget point of view, it makes no sense to chase down theoretical research.

Now a lot of Universities do not have the budget or the competency that we do so they end up publishing theoretical ideas for the sale of doing them. This is where we run into the publish or perish culture.

Personally I think we can get away in SA by having 2 research Universities and the rest just focus on teaching.
 

Knyro

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Not entirely, it depends if the research is objectively driven or not. A good research facility has a combination of both theoretical and practical people. This is how we do RD in the Nuclear field. The Idea is to keep a research culture alive inside of the institution. This is also how CERN operates and how the US military does research.

From a budget point of view, it makes no sense to chase down theoretical research.

Now a lot of Universities do not have the budget or the competency that we do so they end up publishing theoretical ideas for the sale of doing them. This is where we run into the publish or perish culture.

Personally I think we can get away in SA by having 2 research Universities and the rest just focus on teaching.
And yet history is full of innumerable examples of theoretical research that had no vision toward any applications that turned out to be immensely useful.
 

ponder

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it takes zero effort for any institution to marginalize a white minority in this country, even if it is just 30% if Afrikaners where on equal footing than black people our needs would have been respected. do you think if the Swiss government can educate people in 4 languages we cannot do 2? bollocks we did two languages for a hundred years.

you know what the real difference is, the Swiss don't consider the Italian speakers more worthy of consideration than French. this just shows we clearly are 2nd rate citizens in this country, not that we pay 2nd rate taxes though but I bet you TUKS will continue to beg for donations from every Afrikaner that ever went there.
Jy praat kuk.

Do you see universities teaching in zulu & xhosa? It's the mother tongue of 40% of our population while afrikaans & english is just over half of that. So based on that wtf are the second rate citizens?
 

Nicodeamus

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And yet history is full of innumerable examples of theoretical research that had no vision toward any applications that turned out to be immensely useful.
That is a given that you don’t always know when research becomes useful, but blowing the whole RD kitty on it is nonsensical.

The intellectual method is to eventually calibrate your theory against reality. Otherwise is just stays unproven and on paper.

Research is always going to be multifaceted, but the current system is turning our University into phd factories.

Coming back to France, it depends on what you study and where. They have a few Universities for research, lots of Engineering schools for practical stuff and often dedicated labs (similar to our CSIR) that pushes most of the applied knowledge.

Then you have large projects like CERN and ITER that has only a few publishers and lot of research. CEA and their military also does a lot of classified research.

The papers that are published in English is a minute factor in the complex system, which is why it tells me little or nothing of what is going on in the country.

Another reason why I hate the publishing system is that it gives the impression that more papers = better research. This very often leads to comparng apples and oranges.

For example, South African Civil Engineers would beat the French on any given day when it comes to mining and tailingsdams, but I had no clue on how to design for an earthquake when I got here.
 

Knyro

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That is a given that you don’t always know when research becomes useful, but blowing the whole RD kitty on it is nonsensical.

The intellectual method is to eventually calibrate your theory against reality. Otherwise is just stays unproven and on paper.

Research is always going to be multifaceted, but the current system is turning our University into phd factories.

Coming back to France, it depends on what you study and where. They have a few Universities for research, lots of Engineering schools for practical stuff and often dedicated labs (similar to our CSIR) that pushes most of the applied knowledge.

The papers that are published in English is a minute factor in the complex system, which is why it tells me little or nothing of what is going on in the country.
The very fact that you think theory means "unproven" and needs to be "eventually" callibrated against reality proves that you don't understand what theoretical research is.

Post the people from from these labs and I'll check what language they publish in.
 

Nicodeamus

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The very fact that you think theory means "unproven" and needs to be "eventually" callibrated against reality proves that you don't understand what theoretical research is.
.
Please do explain it then.
 

Nicodeamus

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Just another point on language. Herman Giliomee once pointed out a study from the University of Strasbourg (that teaches in German and French). The Professors all wanted to teach in English, while the students wanted their respective languages.

The interest of the Professors is not always the same as those of the students. I won’t be surprised if this isn’t the same among Afrikaans lecturers.
 

Knyro

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1) Look at experimental data i.e. reality
2) Take a guess at why what ever you're looking at is the way that it is (hypothesis)
3) See if your hypothesis reproduces experimental data
4) See if your hypothesis doesn't contradict well known phenomena i.e. reality again
5) See if some other well-known phenomena can be deduced from from your hypothesis (oh look reality)
6) See if some unknown phenomena is predicted by your hypothesis, then run experiment to see if the data verifies your prediction (yawn reality)
7) Only after it is hammered against reality for a long time does it gain wide acceptance and eventually comes to be known as a theory

So you see theoretical research is intertwined with reality from the get-go. It's not some mathematical ass-pull by some guy on a whiteboard manipulating equations.

BTW. Still waiting for those names.
 

Nicodeamus

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1) Look at experimental data i.e. reality
2) Take a guess at why what ever you're looking at is the way that it is (hypothesis)
3) See if your hypothesis reproduces experimental data
4) See if your hypothesis doesn't contradict well known phenomena i.e. reality again
5) See if some other well-known phenomena can be deduced from from your hypothesis (oh look reality)
6) See if some unknown phenomena is predicted by your hypothesis, then run experiment to see if the data verifies your prediction (yawn reality)
7) Only after it is hammered against reality for a long time does it gain wide acceptance and eventually comes to be known as a theory

So you see theoretical research is intertwined with reality from the get-go. It's not some mathematical ass-pull by some guy on a whiteboard manipulating equations.

BTW. Still waiting for those names.
That is the intellectual method. Basically model and then observe.

The theoretical side works on the model. A lot of research in France went into developing Finite Element modeling for example (an in between of applied mathematics and and Engineering).
After all is said and done you still need an experiment to test or verify the model (or to eatablish its range of applicability).

Now you can see why things do get so expensive. We haven’t even touched building equipment yet. The Universities noways put a lot of work into modelling.
 

Knyro

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That is the intellectual method. Basically model and then observe.

The theoretical side works on the model. A lot of research in France went into developing Finite Element modeling for example (an in between of applied mathematics and and Engineering).
After all is said and done you still need an experiment to test or verify the model (or to eatablish its range of applicability).

Now you can see why things do get so expensive. We haven’t even touched building equipment yet. The Universities noways put a lot of work into modelling.

You know what a shed-load of experimental data is out there? Not everybody needs to build equipment. Many people don't have to. Simulations are a thing you know?

Unless it really is that earth shattering most theorists shouldn't have any problem seeing or not whether their work is nonsense or not or establishing its range based on already available data.
 
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