Turkey announces incursion of northeast Syria, US-backed Kurds have vowed ‘all-out’ war

[thestaggy]

Many countries had actions in other countries, but is the emerging threat inspired by the US?

If the Iraqis were Jainists, would ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram,Taliban, Al Shabab, Hezbollah, Hamas exist?

Hussein was able to keep his country in order. Yes, oppressively so, but it was in order. As a minority Sunni it was in his best interests to limit sectarianism. Hussein was also actively trying to locate and capture Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who effectively laid the foundations for what would become ISIS. The US making a mess there created a power vacuum and threw the door wide open for ISIS to flourish.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Well , it looks as if Syria is finally going to regain more of its sovereign territory.

The Kurds in Syria say the Syrian government has agreed to send its army to the northern border to try to halt Turkey's offensive against them.

Turkey-Syria offensive: Kurds reach deal with Syrian army

Syrian government forces will be deployed along Syria's northern border to halt Turkey's assault.

www.bbc.com

American troops have reportedly withdrawn from their observation post in the town of Kobani in northern Syria as the Turkish Army advances deeper south and Damascus says it has sent its military to the area.

US troops ‘leave’ Kobani as Turkish incursion advances and Kurds make deal with Damascus

American troops have reportedly withdrawn from their observation post in the town of Kobani in northern Syria as the Turkish Army advances deeper south and Damascus says it has sent its military to the area.

www.rt.com

 

[Milano]

Hussein was able to keep his country in order. Yes, oppressively so, but it was in order. As a minority Sunni it was in his best interests to limit sectarianism. Hussein was also actively trying to locate and capture Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who effectively laid the foundations for what would become ISIS. The US making a mess there created a power vacuum and threw the door wide open for ISIS to flourish.

If that is your argument then you could just as easily go further back in history to instead identify the roots of his radicalisation. You could just as conveniently tie his radicalisation indirectly to the the formation of the state of israel. Or directly to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. In which case you could go further back in history to the Middle ages and earlier. You really have to throw everything in with these guys and fully support them in this case. You cannot go half way without digging into the roots.

 

[buka001]

In other news Trump decides to pull American troops out of the Middle East to prevent America being stuck in forever wars.

A day later Trump authorises despatching 2 fighter squadrons, 1 Expeditionary Air wing, 2 Patriot SAM detachments and 1 THAAD missile battery, to ... the Middle East in an area at risk of a protracted forever war.

Ok then.

 

[Milano]

In other news Trump decides to pull American troops out of the Middle East to prevent America being stuck in forever wars.

A day later Trump authorises despatching 2 fighter squadrons, 1 Expeditionary Air wing, 2 Patriot SAM detachments and 1 THAAD missile battery, to ... the Middle East in an area at risk of a protracted forever war.

Ok then.

We need the world police back fsck yeah.

 

[buka001]

We need the world police back fsck yeah.

Trump certainly agrees with that principle. Deploying troops to protect Saudi oilfields.

 

[Milano]

Trump certainly agrees with that principle. Deploying troops to protect Saudi oilfields.

Trump, every recent American president and most of Europe. Is it even any surprise we live in the world we do today.

 

[buka001]

Trump, every recent American president and most of Europe. Is it even any surprise we live in the world we do today.

Oh I agree.

 

[rietrot]

This is tricky. I support Turkey doing something with the millions or refugees, but why couldn't they pick a spot next to rather than on top of the Kurds.
Also the US helped to fight ISIS(after first sponsoring them to overthrow Assad), who has now been defeated. The Kurds vs Turkey is a old and separate fight that probably has no real solution.
The EU however is a complete hypocrite in all of this.

 

[Milano]

This is tricky. I support Turkey doing something with the millions or refugees, but why couldn't they pick a spot next to rather than on top of the Kurds.
Also the US helped to fight ISIS(after first sponsoring them to overthrow Assad), who has now been defeated. The Kurds vs Turkey is a old and separate fight that probably has no real solution.
The EU however is a complete hypocrite in all of this.

The entire situation is a complete sh*tfest. Irrespective of whatever inspired, created, or led to ISIS, the world was largely united in terms of recognising the need to destroy ISIS. But then sitting with the resulting 10,000 ISIS prisoners of European origin was a massive headache. The vast majority of European countries didn't want them and simply refused to take their citizens back. Cannot execute 10,000 people many of whom have never been properly tried or convicted but are obviously guilty by association at the very least. Why would the Kurds be responsible for holding European ISIS prisoners? What is supposed to be done with them?

With reference to these ISIS prisoners only, perhaps withdrawing and letting the problem 'solve' itself away from international law was seen as the solution.

 

[rietrot]

The entire situation is a complete sh*tfest. Irrespective of whatever inspired, created, or led to ISIS, the world was largely united in terms of recognising the need to destroy ISIS. But then sitting with the resulting 10,000 ISIS prisoners of European origin was a massive headache. The vast majority of European countries didn't want them and simply refused to take their citizens back. Cannot execute 10,000 people many of whom have never been properly tried or convicted but are obviously guilty by association at the very least. Why would the Kurds be responsible for holding European ISIS prisoners? What is supposed to be done with them?

With reference to these ISIS prisoners only, perhaps withdrawing and letting the problem 'solve' itself away from international law was seen as the solution.

If I were the Kurds, I would forget the cell door open and make sure they escape to somewhere far away, preferably back to their countries of origin.

 

[FrankCastle]

Hussein was able to keep his country in order. Yes, oppressively so, but it was in order. As a minority Sunni it was in his best interests to limit sectarianism. Hussein was also actively trying to locate and capture Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who effectively laid the foundations for what would become ISIS. The US making a mess there created a power vacuum and threw the door wide open for ISIS to flourish.

We've had many dictators oppressing their people, who were eventually overthrown creating a power vacuum. And yes the US have had their dirty hands all the place including South America where the drug trade flourished.
My point is do you blame an American president when a man is prepared to blow himself up?

In fact these middle easterners will do anything to get a taste of American life, even though they constantly call the west satan, evil, going to hell etc.

 

[thestaggy]

We've had many dictators oppressing their people, who were eventually overthrown creating a power vacuum. And yes the US have had their dirty hands all the place including South America where the drug trade flourished.

If the Iraqis ousted Hussein and then started blow each other up then that's their business. If the US ousts Hussein and then they start targeting the US and their allies, then its the US's problem.

My point is do you blame an American president when a man is prepared to blow himself up?

When said man comes from a country you destabilised/helped create the conditions where extremism flourishes, then yes, you shoulder some of that blame.

As I said earlier, you cannot run around fvcking countries up and expect not to be held accountable for the fallout.

 

[FrankCastle]

If the Iraqis ousted Hussein and then started blow each other up then that's their business. If the US ousts Hussein and then they start targeting the US and their allies, then its the US's problem.



When said man comes from a country you destabilised/helped create the conditions where extremism flourishes, then yes, you shoulder some of that blame.

As I said earlier, you cannot run around fvcking countries up and expect not to be held accountable for the fallout.

Except that there have been more muslims dying through terrorist attacks then in the US or its allies.
Secondly, do you think the primary motivating factor for a suicide bomber/terrorist is what the US did or is he inspired by the koran/muhammed/virgins in paradise.
Remember he is sacrificing himself not to bring an overall change but to create something for himself which he believes is inspired by his religion.

 

[BBSA]

Turkey-Syria offensive: US sanctions Turkish ministries

The US demands an immediate ceasefire from Turkey and sends Vice-President Mike Pence to the region.

www.bbc.com

 

[SoldierMan]

Turkey-Syria offensive: US sanctions Turkish ministries

The US demands an immediate ceasefire from Turkey and sends Vice-President Mike Pence to the region.

www.bbc.com

Oh come on, if Trump was serious about stopping the attack he would simply station about 50 or however many troops in whatever area the Turks wanted to attack (like had been in place up until Trump removed them...). That would prevent any attacks from occurring in case the US troops were hit. And for the record I support Trump (to a certain degree anyway).

 

[Milano]

Winners: Syrian government, Russia, Turkey, Iran, ISIS.

Losers: Kurds, Israel, (maybe US)

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Turkey-Syria offensive: US sanctions Turkish ministries

The US demands an immediate ceasefire from Turkey and sends Vice-President Mike Pence to the region.

www.bbc.com

Sanctions over an attack he greenlit? Comical.

 

[Techne]

The news is even more fake than you think.

When I was sent to the Iran-Iraq war for the first time, the first time was from 1980 to July 1986, I was sent to this war to report for FAZ. The Iraqis were then ‘the good guys’.

I was bit afraid. I didn’t have any experience as a war reporter. Then I arrived in Baghdad. I was fairly quickly sent along in a bus by the Iraqi army, the bus was full of loud, experienced war reporters, from such prestigious media as the BBC, several foreign TV-stations and newspapers, and me, poor newbie, who was sent to the front for the first time without any kind of preparation. The first thing I saw was that they all carried along cans of petrol. And I at once got bad consciousness, because I thought: «oops, if the bus gets stuck far from a petrol station, then everyone chips in with a bit of diesel’. I decided to in the future also carry a can before I went anywhere, because it obviously was part of it.

We drove for hours through the desert, towards the Iraqi border. Approx. 20-30 kilometers from the border, there really was nothing. First of all no war. There were armored vehicles and tanks, burned-out long ago. The journalist left the bus, splashed the contents of the cans on the vehicles. We had Iraqi soldiers with us as an escort, with machine guns, in uniform. You have to imagine: tanks in a desert, burned out long ago, now put on fire. Clouds of smoke. And there the journalists assemble their cameras.

It was my first experience with media, truth in reporting.

While I was wondering what the hell I was going to report for my newspaper, they all lined up and started: Behind them were flames and plumes of smoke, and all the time the Iraqis were running in front of camera with their machine guns, casually, but with war in their gaze. And the reporters were ducking all the time while talking.

So I gathered courage and asked one of the reporters: ‘I understand one thing, they are great pictures, but why are they ducking all the time? ‘

‘Quite simply because there are machine guns on the audio track, and it looks very good at home.’

Lying, prostituting media and the people working there. Literally the enemy of the people.

 

[Alan]

You forget the part where ISIS is a consequence of US actions in Iraq over a decade ago.


If the US wants to roll in to countries, topple regimes, fight proxy wars and generally fvck the place up, they should be expected to handle the aftermath responsibly.


And this is said by somebody that would rather have the US taking the lead than China/Russia/Iran.

How long is it the US responsibility before it becomes the Iraqis responsibility? I take it you supported Bush's troop surge and opposed Obama and dems demands to pull out of Iraq?

In any case Obama claimed ISIS was just a minor JV team.

Why the U.S? We're told they're always messing everything up. Should it not be the new leaders of the free world Germany and France?

Hussein was able to keep his country in order. Yes, oppressively so, but it was in order. As a minority Sunni it was in his best interests to limit sectarianism. Hussein was also actively trying to locate and capture Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who effectively laid the foundations for what would become ISIS. The US making a mess there created a power vacuum and threw the door wide open for ISIS to flourish.

I find this quite incredible. In a thread about a Syria where a Baathist tyrant has failed to keep things "in order", with it collapsing into civil war, somehow people think Saddam would continue to keep a lid on things in Iraq.


Seems you forget Assad was once proclaimed a pragmatic despot. A western educated ophthalmologist with a lovely wife. Nancy Pelosi was so confident in John Kerry's good friend she declared ""the road to Damascus is a road to peace " Five years later Damascus was being shelled in a civil war the UN claimed could produce the largest humanitarian catastrophe of the 21st century.

As to Iraq it seems you've also forgotten the extraordinary lengths the West had to go to to help keep things "in order" in Saddam's Iraq. No fly zones of over northern and southern Iraq for example because Saddam had a penchant for unleashing his military on Iraqi civilians

The Anfal genocide[3][4][5][6] was a genocide[7][8] that killed between 50,000[1] and 182,000[2] Kurds. It was committed during the Al-Anfal campaign (Harakat al-Anfal/Homleh al-Anfal) (Kurdish: پڕۆسەی ئەنفال‎) (Arabic: حملة الأنفال‎) led by Ali Hassan al-Majid against Kurdistan in northern Iraq during the final stages of the Iran–Iraq War.

The campaign's name was from Sura 8 (al-Anfal) in the Qur'an, which was used as a code name by the former Iraqi Ba'athist Government for a series of systematic attacks against the Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq between 1986 and 1989, with the peak in 1988. Sweden, Norway, South Korea and the United Kingdom officially recognize the Anfal campaign as genocide.[9]

The genocide was part of the destruction of Kurdish villages during the Iraqi Arabization campaign.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide#cite_note-9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide#cite_note-9

Anfal campaign - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Crushing Of the Shia uprising in Southern Iraq

Within the first two weeks, most of Iraq's cities and provinces fell to rebel forces. Participants of the uprising were a diverse mix of ethnic, religious and political affiliations, including military mutineers, Shia Arab Islamists, Kurdish nationalists, and far-left groups. Following initial victories, the revolution was held back from continued success by internal divisions as well as a lack of anticipated American support[citation needed]. Saddam's Sunni Arab-dominated Ba'ath Party regime managed to maintain control over the capital of Baghdad and soon largely suppressed the rebels in a brutal campaign conducted by loyalist forces spearheaded by the Iraqi Republican Guard.

During the brief, roughly one-month period of unrest, tens of thousands of people died and nearly two million people were displaced. After the conflict, the Iraqi government intensified a prior systematic forced relocation of Marsh Arabs and the draining of the Mesopotamian Marshes in the Tigris–Euphrates river system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris–Euphrates_river_system

1991 Iraqi uprisings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then there was the draconian sanctions imposed on Iraq to keep Saddam in check that had devastating effect on Iraqi Civilians.


Seems Iraq was more a warzone for most of the time under Saddam's rule than merely an oppressive "orderly" tyranny....