UK Daily Mail - Zuma Article

R13...

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Wow.... you live in a strange world....

Maybe theres just too much corruption and stuff going on, which feeds into the "I told-you-so mentality"

You are welcome to dispute any of my "strange world" theories.
A lot of people are naive to the happenings of this country - they are happy to just feed off the trash spewed by lazy daily newspaper journalists. I don't know maybe it gives you a warm fuzzy waking up to news that it is only a matter of days before we are in Zim 2.0.
 

Ricard

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This is not the argument for here, but lets see whats changed.

I thought you would have a bit more substance than that.
Mandela took over a mess, to mention but a few,
-The police was, untrusted by the people they were meants to police (read - the thin blue line for starters),
So no change.. the police are still untrusted.

-The SADF was murderous & only known to shoot teargas thru the windows of sleeping folks in the townships (or black areas),
There are no windows left, but this is no excuse for these savage acts

-During the states of emerg, the SADF wud regularly rape school girls whenever called upon to quell dissent or just when they felt like,
its moved from the SADF to political parties now

-White people where leaving key positions in droves for fear of a black gov, in the great chicken run,
So people left SA 'cos they were scared of African rulers, and its nothing to do with living life to the fullest and going for opportunities in new locations

-The civil service was staffed by a white afrikaner staff that was not prepared to bow to a black (this is true of most gov depts)
And now its staffed by Blacks who refuse to bow down to whites

- Mind you CODESA agreements meant a lot of people who deserved to be purged could not be purged for the sake of a peaceful transition.
This is true, but there are many ways 'purge' the system :-D The ANC have shown this tactic to be very effective in political meddling.

It was Mandela's job to manage the minefield he inherited from the nats.

I in no way say the NATs handed over SA on a silver platter... the media was censored (remember TV only got to SA in about 1974 due to the NATS) The country was in a state of unrest and things could not carry on.

My bottom line is - the NATS=ANC=COPE=IFP no political party is better than then next, its different lies to get more votes.

but back to the article
 

Alan

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I also think he was aware of SOME of what was going on around him and endorsed it.... Some he didn't have a clue because his lieutenants were hiding it from him...

His lieutenants maybe but not the opposition or press. But incompetence is no excuse. Nobody now says Mugabe is a great man because he brought down Smith's racist regime bringing "peaceful democracy" to Zim for 20 years.


Toxic, it is very hard to manage people who don't want to be managed & in fact who are hell bent on fullfilling their prophesy of all doom & gloom. Unfortunately that mentality still exists to this day.
There are prophets of doom exploiting the naive & stupid with fear mongering - Zim 2.0, the Mandela death scam, and people actually believe the stuff. Even supposedly intelligent members of the community gobble up for gospel. I am not saying SA is headed for prosperity at the moment, but its inhabitants aren't helping with their self-fulfilling prophesies...

Too much I-told-you-so mentality!

Some people are idealists others are [-]pessimists[/-] realists
 

ToxicBunny

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You seem to be one of those head in the sand type people in a way..

I'm not denying there were problems when Mandela came into power... but the choices made under his leadership and then Mbeki's have not tried to fix the problems... they've tried to hide them and create new ones.
 

R13...

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Most of the policies conceived after '94 were actually very good ideas. How they were implemented I cannot say. Take AA for example,... a good policy in theory, but used by co. managements (esp in parastals) to enrich themselves.

About AA, co. boards earn bonus on the no. of PDI's they have on their staff & to satisfy their greed, they go out & find the most bendable boot lickers they can find to make the no.'s. And when the ***** hits the fan they go & bring former employees as consultants at inflated rates to sort out the messes.

Btw, I spent a few months without a job due to Eskom AA policies (& I'm black)! Go figure!
 

ToxicBunny

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AA was never a good policy in theory, it was ALWAYS going to be abused....
 

R13...

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You seem to be one of those head in the sand type people in a way..

I'm not denying there were problems when Mandela came into power... but the choices made under his leadership and then Mbeki's have not tried to fix the problems... they've tried to hide them and create new ones.

On yr 1st pnt - hardly.

You seem to ignore the fact that I acknowledge the problems, and am trying to say to you that the foundations are weak & it will take to sort this problems out. I guess you don't read subtext too well. So I'm spelling it out.
 

R13...

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AA was never a good policy in theory, it was ALWAYS going to be abused....
Any policy is open to abuse.
If co.'s had put proper systems in place to monitor & check it, things would not have gone this horribly wrong.

How hard can it be to measure & check against this criteria,
In the event that a white & "black" candidate meet the position's minimum requirements, then the AA candidate should get the job even if the white candidate has an edge, just ensure that the person hired can do the job! All you have to do is have an indepent body or person ensure that this criteria is satisfied during the selection process.
 

ToxicBunny

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You're just adding unnecessary overhead to a hiring system.... and bringing in another level that can be abused...
 

R13...

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You're just adding unnecessary overhead to a hiring system.... and bringing in another level that can be abused...

Then maybe we should just scrap all audit systems.
All systems are supposed to be auditable. But you do see my point now surely, no?

/I'm out
 

Alan

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How hard can it be to measure & check against this criteria,
In the event that a white & "black" candidate meet the position's minimum requirements, then the AA candidate should get the job even if the white candidate has an edge, just ensure that the person hired can do the job! All you have to do is have an indepent body or person ensure that this criteria is satisfied during the selection process.

Yeah nothing helps our competitiveness like hiring people who can 'just' do the job over those that offer more :rolleyes:.

It's totally impractical having people running around checking whether somebody got his job by satisfying this criteria. Representation over merit doesn't work
 

R13...

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Yeah nothing helps our competitiveness like hiring people who can 'just' do the job over those that offer more :rolleyes:.

It's totally impractical having people running around checking whether somebody got his job by satisfying this criteria. Representation over merit doesn't work
I'm not sure what work you do Alan.
But in the industries I work/studied, we have this things called quality is everyone's reponsibility & there shud be no need for a quality dept. It's system that has served the Japs so well & enabled them to kick the yanks' a$$es in their own backyard.
 

Drake2007

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Most of the policies conceived after '94 were actually very good ideas. How they were implemented I cannot say. Take AA for example,... a good policy in theory, but used by co. managements (esp in parastals) to enrich themselves.

Ask yourself who ultimately appointed those innefectual CEO's to protect their crony network, the enrichment ultimately going back to that network through fund raisings for that political party.

About AA, co. boards earn bonus on the no. of PDI's they have on their staff & to satisfy their greed, they go out & find the most bendable boot lickers they can find to make the no.'s. And when the ***** hits the fan they go & bring former employees as consultants at inflated rates to sort out the messes.

That is ultimately the flaw in the policy.
Those former employees were forced out of those positions. They had spent their lives building up their careers to earn those positions just to be thrown out because of their race. There would not have been any 'messes' to sort out, therefore the so called inflated consulting rate.

Btw, I spent a few months without a job due to Eskom AA policies (& I'm black)! Go figure!
Shame, Try a decade and then complain. (& I'm white)
 

blunomore

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Very sensational - the guy could write TV soapies.

However, I do not think the factual content can be disputed.
 

Vrotappel

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-The SADF was murderous & only known to shoot teargas thru the windows of sleeping folks in the townships (or black areas),
-During the states of emerg, the SADF wud regularly rape school girls whenever called upon to quell dissent or just when they felt like,
-White people where leaving key positions in droves for fear of a black gov, in the great chicken run,
-The civil service was staffed by a white afrikaner staff that was not prepared to bow to a black (this is true of most gov depts)
- Mind you CODESA agreements meant a lot of people who deserved to be purged could not be purged for the sake of a peaceful transition.

It was Mandela's job to manage the minefield he inherited from the nats.

Need I go on..

Go on posting nonsense, I was part of that SADF and was in the townships. Our job was to stop blacks killing blacks. My job was to patch up blacks chopped up with pangas and thrown from trains. Not sure where you get raping from, that's more Zuma and those like him's forte.

Maybe you need to brush up on your history and not believe all the lies the ANC is feeding you.
 

BandwidthAddict

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I love all this useless bickering going on here.

You believe the article is bunk because of the person who wrote it? Sad to be you. You probably listen to music based on which band plays rather than whether you actually like the sound.

Here is a fact: South Africa ceased to exist years ago. This is a new country, with a new soul; a country without honest direction and one that is dying.

Yes, this country will die. By that, I mean that the infrastructure and economy will break down, civility will be replaced by tribal wars and all pretense of justice will wash away in shame.

How can I be so sure? Simple. It's already happening.

Cope splits with the ANC and promises to clean up corruption. "They" are the cure for corruption they say. But they lie. This is evident because they cannot cure corruption when they are themselves corrupt. The split came because Cope are Xhosa, and the ANC is becoming Zulu. The tribes are realigning with reality.

This country lacks something that will allow it to come back from the brink. It lacks good, strong principles.

Anyone that cheers at "bring me my machine gun" lacks good principles. Anyone that blames other for all their failures lacks good principles. Anyone that looks upon the success of others with envy lacks good principles; and if they wish to "redistribute" that success, thay are pure evil. Anyone that lives in the past lacks good principles. Anyone that plays the victim card lacks good principles. Anyone who is eligable to vote and choses not to lacks good principles. Anyone who votes along identity/tribal lines lacks good principles.

Basically, the entire country lacks good principles; in fact have no clue as to what I am talking about.

Reality is a cruel mistress. She is a deaf, blind, insensitive, uncaring, narcissistic *female dog* but she has a voice; when she whispers, the world shakes. She cares not for your reasons, your whining, your pleading, your hopes, your dreams, your naivity, your evil, your good intentions, your genuinely good deeds, your story, your life, your pain. She is, as she is, set into motion on the wings of a trillion butterflies (small events), will go where she will go; unencumbered, unstoppable.

That what was set into motion many years ago, will crush whats left of the rainbow dream and reality will shine in.

Here is the reality:

We don't like each other. We don't trust each other. We are not compatible with each other. Currently, there is a soft war going on between us but economic realities will change that. The blacks, having a strong tribal culture of resource allocation through violent means will adopt violent behaviour to secure their share of dwindling resources. The whites who can run, will do so. The ones who will fight, will try .. maybe they will be able to carve a small enclave for themselves but with the numbers stacked against them .. good luck. The whites who can neither run, nor choose to fight: the unlucky ones will either be killed or enslaved; the lucky ones will be ignored.

Pretty much the usual fare for Africa.

But in this new world climate, where there will be a good chance that the "rich" countries will not be able to afford charity, they will all share the same fate. They will all starve, they will suffer and many millions will die, or will migrate, until only a handful remain to exist as they have existed for eons.

No more country.
 

BandwidthAddict

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Of course, having said that, there are other possibilities.

For example, there are the Oranja factors.

Here is an interesting challenge. What do you think I mean by the Oranja factors?
 

-toady-

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Reality is a cruel mistress. She is a deaf, blind, insensitive, uncaring, narcissistic *female dog* but she has a voice; when she whispers, the world shakes. She cares not for your reasons, your whining, your pleading, your hopes, your dreams, your naivity, your evil, your good intentions, your genuinely good deeds, your story, your life, your pain. She is, as she is, set into motion on the wings of a trillion butterflies (small events), will go where she will go; unencumbered, unstoppable.

*is on its feet applauding.....
 
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