UK Daily Mail - Zuma Article

R13...

Honorary Master
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Nice try there BandwithAddict,
You must be in the group that writes those Zim 2.0 emails for them clueless scared afrikaners.

By the way the SADF I speak of VB is not the one that patrolled the streets of Soweto, Katlegong, Thokoza, Hostels, etc - where the murderous IFP with the SADF's help murdered other black people as you put it. I fortunately did not live in that powder keg. Remember that when the states of emerg were declared soldiers were sent all over.
 

boramk

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I don't think SA will go under... Just carry on being as degraded as it is, but not to the point of racial hate wars etc.
 

Vrotappel

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I don't think SA will go under... Just carry on being as degraded as it is, but not to the point of racial hate wars etc.

I'm not sure, with people like larrychang who eat up everything the ANC tells them the future looks bleak.
 

Natas

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The article may very well be sensationalist crap, but the fact of the matter is, peeps reading this take it as the impartial truth! The perception is created.
 

Alan

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When somebody said Zim would go down the toilet they were labeled sensationalist, racist, afro pessimists blah, blah, blah.....Some things never change.
 

Emjay

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I thought you would have a bit more substance than that.
Mandela took over a mess, to mention but a few,
-The SADF was murderous & only known to shoot teargas thru the windows of sleeping folks in the townships (or black areas),
-During the states of emerg, the SADF wud regularly rape school girls whenever called upon to quell dissent or just when they felt like,

Instead of spewing sensationalist statements, provide backup to what you are saying.

The author of this article has been to these rallies. He was amongst the crowds. This is only one of the things that make me believe that he understands the situation in SA.

-White people where leaving key positions in droves for fear of a black gov, in the great chicken run,

The people that left the country are the lucky ones. I don't blame them. When you hear about woman being burnt with irons, put under hot taps and raped in front of their families it makes me want to run for my life. The level of violent crime in SA is scary and commonplace in Africa. Yet the ANC do not address the real issues. Don't believe me? Go to Youtube or Google and do a search for farm murders. There are webpages dedicated to listing the murders.

And the Government is yet to release crime stats!

I am not even going to go into AA and BEE.

And why are you standing up for the ANC Larry? Have they gotten to you too? Just think, while the ANC is spending tax payers money on their security guards, high walls, trips overseas for their family and friends, latest and greatest cars etc the people who really need the money for homes and food are being left out in the cold! SA needs someone with the guts to take charge and deal with issues at hand. Not someone who will spend billions upon billions on the Gautrain and stadiums that will benefit the middle class/rich. A kid living on the streets will not rest well knowing that he has an empty stomach because SA has new and pretty stadiums. Before anyone jumps the gun, I know it has benefits. It has provided a lot of jobs but in my mind this is all short term. We need longer term solutions like education, giving townships clean water and electricity, housing, fixing our roads, power, water, policing etc.

All of you think that SA is fine and going to be fine, you need to wake and up and smell the coffee. Before we can really fix SA's problems, we need to get rid of the rotten apples at the top. People who blindly support the ANC only compound the problem.
 

thatdamnJoe

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Whenever I think about SA and where it might be heading, I try to think of possible scenarios. I then try and think what it would take for each of those scenarios to materialise and try and match the 'catalysts' with what's happening all around us.

The way I see it, there are three main options.

  1. things go better
  2. things stay the same
  3. things go worse

In the options above, 'things' are things I find important. It may not hold true for everyone, since not everybody values the same 'things' equally and people have different interests and desires. As a minimum I expect the elected government to use the tax money I pay to provide the services constitutionally expected from them. I expect the criminal justice system to function; I expect the educational system to function; I expect roads not to fall apart; I expect the water coming out of my tap to be drinkable and the lights to come on when I flip the switch. I expect hospitals to be clean and safe and lastly I expect public servants to acknowledge their positions as servants of the greater public good and I expect them to be accountable for their actions.

I’m not interested in excuses about why the government isn’t delivering on any of their promises; I don’t want to hear about how the apartheid government only provided for a few and now the services had to be extended for millions more. Systems were in place to provide services for x amount of people before and those services were sufficient for x amount of people. If y amount of people now use those services, then obviously the planning and the systems needs to change. You know this, I know this. How the hell can government not know this?

It is no secret that South Africa's services, as offered by the government, are in decline. Government have done a great job in giving more people access to these services, but have somehow spectacularly failed to plan to extend the capacity required to deliver those services.

Are things going to go better, stay the same or go worse?

The status quo is a slow but steady decline of standards of service delivery. This is apparent to people living a middle class life, but far less so for someone who has access to running water for the first time. The middle class hears about all the charges of corruption and graft and it irks them. The poor classes smile at the news of a basic income grant. Does the fact that many people still don’t have access to flush toilets somehow negate my rights to complain about potholes on national roads? Does the middle class have any moral right to complain? As long as we follow a capitalist system, I strongly believe that we do have that right and that we should not hesitate to exercise it to keep politicians on their toes.

What is needed to arrest this decline in services? In my opinion, change would realistically come about only if there were a real culture of accountability. Either because a party is punished at the polls, or its own leaders somehow imbue the party with a sense of accountability. When people acknowledge the contribution a specific party has made, whilst at the same time asking whether someone else couldn’t have made more of a difference, we’ll be well on our way to recovery.

So which option are we heading for? Until we hold our politicians accountable for their failures, I’m afraid I see no reason why the slow decline should stop.

my 2c
 

Mila

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NO no man we are overreacting again. It’s the whites plan to bring back apartheid...:sick:

//spits on Zuma
 

2CentsWorth

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notice how no readers commented on the article? amid all the turmoil in the world, nobody really gives a **** what happens in some tiny and quite insignificant country like SA... the author tried to portray this country as important, but it soooo isn't.
 

R13...

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All I hear is whining noises from the respondents.
Not one person has been able to directly contradict anything I have said.
All I hear is look there blah blah crime there blah blah corruption there blah blah.

If you are going to debate at least take the emo out of it & face the facts & analysis. I am not ANC apologist, only a citizen who does not subscribe to the doomsday prophesies of myBB's members.

MaryJane would you like to back some of the nonsense you yourself are busy emo'ing?! And how are farm murders different to the dozens of other opportunistic murders happening on a daily basis across the country?!

And please feel free to start on AA/EE - you would not be able to hold up a debate on the topic against me, believe me, you wouldn't be able to!
 

thatdamnJoe

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This is what one site has to say about old Pete'



I wouldn't bother with the merits of his article - it looks like he scanned through some of our more colourful newspapers & then added some of his usual stuff & voila...

This is known as an ad hominem argument. Perhaps you could try and attack the basis of his argument instead of his character
 

thatdamnJoe

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Don't think you can divorce the article from the author.
Anyway, what he does is state some "facts - about Zuma" & then uses that as a spring board to attack SA. He does not analyse the reasons for the situation SA is in. He is fear mongering & trying to justify some agenda of his and whateva else.

Then disprove his allegations




Sure we have shacks, immigrants, etc; but if he were honest he would at least try & analyse why that is so & why we didn't have those things pre-'94. But doing that would not fit his agenda. Saying Mandela is politically naive & ineffectual is how shall I put - naive!

The point of the article is not to pontificate on why we are in the position we are in, but a look at the situation from an outsiders point of view. If you dont like it, write your own article disproving his claims or elaborating on why the situation is the way it is.
 

R13...

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This is known as an ad hominem argument. Perhaps you could try and attack the basis of his argument instead of his character
whateva man!
If you'd bothered reading the rest of my comments you would have seen my views on the article.
 

thatdamnJoe

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I thought you would have a bit more substance than that.
Mandela took over a mess, to mention but a few,
-The police was, untrusted by the people they were meants to police (read - the thin blue line for starters),
-The SADF was murderous & only known to shoot teargas thru the windows of sleeping folks in the townships (or black areas),
-During the states of emerg, the SADF wud regularly rape school girls whenever called upon to quell dissent or just when they felt like,
-White people where leaving key positions in droves for fear of a black gov, in the great chicken run,
-The civil service was staffed by a white afrikaner staff that was not prepared to bow to a black (this is true of most gov depts)
- Mind you CODESA agreements meant a lot of people who deserved to be purged could not be purged for the sake of a peaceful transition.

It was Mandela's job to manage the minefield he inherited from the nats.

Need I go on..

Yes, it was a challenging job. What's your point?
 

thatdamnJoe

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Toxic, it is very hard to manage people who don't want to be managed & in fact who are hell bent on fullfilling their prophesy of all doom & gloom. Unfortunately that mentality still exists to this day.
There are prophets of doom exploiting the naive & stupid with fear mongering - Zim 2.0, the Mandela death scam, and people actually believe the stuff. Even supposedly intelligent members of the community gobble up for gospel. I am not saying SA is headed for prosperity at the moment, but its inhabitants aren't helping with their self-fulfilling prophesies...

Too much I-told-you-so mentality!

So the difficult whiteys are sabotaging the blacks to prove the blacks cant manage a government. Is that the gist of your argument?

From where I'm sitting, if you're being sabotaged and you cant sort that out, that's an indictment in itself...
 

thatdamnJoe

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You are welcome to dispute any of my "strange world" theories.
A lot of people are naive to the happenings of this country - they are happy to just feed off the trash spewed by lazy daily newspaper journalists. I don't know maybe it gives you a warm fuzzy waking up to news that it is only a matter of days before we are in Zim 2.0.

I agree that the daily newspapers sensationalise some things. Funny how they have more ammo for these writings lately though.

I've set out my thoughths about ZIM2.0 in an earlier posst in this thread. You're welcome to dispute any of the claims I make there and we can debate them.
 
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