UK's National Health Service to remove 12-year-old from life support against parents' wishes

[Nerfherder]

They should be honest about the motivations on this tbh. It cannot be about protecting the interests of a person, as that person is legally dead if you wanted this to not be murder. So what this actually is about is saving the NHS money.

The honest way to go about this business is to state that the NHS doesn't have an obligation to pay for life support for someone who has permanent brain damage, and if the parents want they can continue care at a private facility.

Why would you want to keep a dead person on life support?

Yes its a drain on money and resources. Every second you spend on keeping a person in suspended animation is time and money you could spend on live people.

 

[Nerfherder]

The issue is who makes the decision.
It should be the family that makes a decision like this, not the court, not the doctors.

The decision has been made already.

If god wants this guy to live then he should resurrect him after they turn off the vent.
They are not killing him, they are just turning off a machine. (actually its more complicated than that.)

 

[Defonotaltaccount]

Key word being significant.


You've yet to provide a single shred of evidence of any significant corruption in that system. I'm still asking for that evidence. I haven't shifted any goalposts.


The boy is brain-dead. His organs are alive. That's apparently about it.


I'm referring to your stance that the patients should get to dictate treatment. That's what will bankrupt the NHS. It will not be just 1 case. It's a state system. If that principle is applied to 1 case it must be applied to all.

All corruption is significant.
The NHS knows it is a problem, thats why they have a hotline.
The existence of a hotline infers there is significant corruption.
Why else would it exist ?
Or perhaps the NHS has found out how to run a corruption free department ?

"Apparently", nobody can say he wont wake up next week or next year though.
Can they ?

The patient is not dictating.
I actually said as taxpayers, the parents should have final say.
And i even showed where to potentially fund it.
Self inflicted injuries, become cash only.

Wouldnt you switch out hardcore drug addicts getting treated for OD's and potentially save the kid ?

 

[porchrat]

All corruption is significant.
The NHS knows it is a problem, thats why they have a hotline.
The existence of a hotline infers there is significant corruption.
Why else would it exist ?
Or perhaps the NHS has found out how to run a corruption free department ?

The hotline could simply exist because they wish to prevent any significant corruption from setting in.

I'm still waiting for evidence sir. Give me a budget breakdown. What proportion of the NHS' budget is lost to corruption each year for example?

The levels of corruption we see in SA are not commonplace in the rest of the world.

"Apparently", nobody can say he wont wake up next week or next year though.
Can they ?

You'd have to ask the experts. Many have weighed in at this point including their legal system. They seem to have determined that he won't.

The patient is not dictating.
I actually said as taxpayers, the parents should have final say.
And i even showed where to potentially fund it.
Self inflicted injuries, become cash only.

I've said this I believe 3 times at this point and you don't seem to grasp it: The parents are speaking on behalf of the patient as his legal guardians. That's the same as saying the patient has the final say. If you don't get that concept then rather just stop this conversation now because it's clearly beyond you.

It's a state system. You can't say the patient has the final say in this single instance but not in the next. Everyone under the state must be treated equally. If your policy is that tax paying patients get the final say in their treatment then that must be applied equally to all cases. This approach would certainly bankrupt the NHS.

Wouldnt you switch out hardcore drug addicts getting treated for OD's and potentially save the kid ?

You can't save the kid. The kid is brain dead already. This is what numerous experts looking into this kid's case have determined. You're switching out "hardcode drug addicts" (lives that could still potentially be saved) to save some organs that are still functioning.

 

[Defonotaltaccount]

The hotline could simply exist because they wish to prevent any significant corruption from setting in.

I'm still waiting for evidence sir. Give me a budget breakdown. What proportion of the NHS' budget is lost to corruption each year for example?

The levels of corruption we see in SA are not commonplace in the rest of the world.


You'd have to ask the experts. Many have weighed in at this point including their legal system. They seem to have determined that he won't.



I've said this I believe 3 times at this point and you don't seem to grasp it: The parents are speaking on behalf of the patient as his legal guardians. That's the same as saying the patient has the final say. If you don't get that concept then rather just stop this conversation now because it's clearly beyond you.

It's a state system. You can't say the patient has the final say in this single instance but not in the next. Everyone under the state must be treated equally. If your policy is that tax paying patients get the final say in their treatment then that must be applied equally to all cases. This approach would certainly bankrupt the NHS.


You can't save the kid. The kid is brain dead already. This is what numerous experts looking into this kid's case have determined. You're switching out "hardcode drug addicts" (lives that could still potentially be saved) to save some organs that are still functioning.

In 2016-17 losses to fraud in the NHS were estimated at £1.25 billion per annum – enough money to pay for over 40,000 staff nurses, or to purchase over 5,000 frontline ambulances. This is taxpayers' money that is taken away from patient care and falls into the hands of criminals.


If you said it 3 times, you missed my point 3 times.

This sums up your take, you dont care to give the kid a chance.
But somehow self inflicted harm draining the system is ok.

 

[RiaX]

Transfer to private facility. If they can't afford private care then unfortunately they have to pull the plug.

 

[wbot]

Archie Battersbee, 12, dies after life support is turned off

The boy's parents, Hollie Dance and Paul Battersbee, wanted the treatment to continue, saying earlier this year his heart was still beating and that he had gripped his mother's hand.

news.sky.com

 

[RVQ]

To throw a spanner in the conversation there's lots of talk in the UK that the mother is milking the situation, sounds harsh but there's apparently reason for this somewhat harsh claim, the Christian group that also supported her isn't much liked either...

 

[Hamster]

Archie Battersbee, 12, dies after life support is turned off

The boy's parents, Hollie Dance and Paul Battersbee, wanted the treatment to continue, saying earlier this year his heart was still beating and that he had gripped his mother's hand.

news.sky.com

Rough stuff

 

[Dave]

To throw a spanner in the conversation there's lots of talk in the UK that the mother is milking the situation, sounds harsh but there's apparently reason for this somewhat harsh claim, the Christian group that also supported her isn't much liked either...

It would be nice to know a bit more about the "Christian Concern" group (and the linked "Christian Legal Centre") who seem to both be groups set up by a person called Andrea Minichiello Williams. Funding seems quite opaque and the number of Battersbee court cases would have stressed the finances of a large company, let alone one operated by a single woman.

 

[Sinbad]

To throw a spanner in the conversation there's lots of talk in the UK that the mother is milking the situation, sounds harsh but there's apparently reason for this somewhat harsh claim, the Christian group that also supported her isn't much liked either...

Absolutely. Her statements like "archie fought right to the end" are utter bollocks. He stopped fighting the second he tied that ligature round his neck.
If she really wanted the kid to be remembered and loved, and to leave a legacy, she should have immediately requested that all his organs be donated to save other critically ill kids as soon as the brain death diagnosis was made.

 

[RiaX]

How this child got injured?

 

[Dave]

How this child got injured?

He tried to hang himself, reasons for doing so are not actually known.

 

[Sinbad]

He tried to hang himself, reasons for doing so are not actually known.

Tiktok challenge.

 

[zophas]

How this child got injured?

He was doing the TikTok blackout challenge and it went too far.

 

[RiaX]

...... then there's no argument. Once the brainstem dies there is no coming back.

Gosh must be so difficult for parents of today to keep up with these dangerous things online.

I had to Google this challenge I didn't even know it existed.

 

[Arksun]

you'll find the full story on kiwifarms. proper screwed up parenting. depressing story.

The OP contains pretty much everything you need to know about the mother.

 

[Dave]

Tiktok challenge.

He was doing the TikTok blackout challenge and it went too far.

Never actually confirmed as true, the mother was just guessing, and that guess rolled into becoming a "fact".

Miss Dance said: “We initially thought that it was a freak accident but now I’m wondering whether it could be some sort of online challenge.

“Someone got in touch with me to say they’d heard of boys putting ligatures over their head as part of an online challenge.

“It may not be but I’m not ruling it out."

Mum fears son left in coma after accident was taking part in 'online challenge'

A 12-year-old boy left in a coma after suffering brain damage in an incident at home might have been taking part in a “online challenge”, his…

www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk

 

[Kieppie]

...... then there's no argument. Once the brainstem dies there is no coming back.

Gosh must be so difficult for parents of today to keep up with these dangerous things online.

I had to Google this challenge I didn't even know it existed.

Yeah some of these TikTok challenges, not confirmed, are pretty crazy and usually only come to light when tragedy strikes.
While this is heart-breaking for the parents, hopefully some good can come out of it. The fact that 12yr olds partake in this nonsense should throw some cold water on this belief that children are mature enough to make life changing decisions.
Then again there are "adults" that also fall for these kinda challenges

 

[maumau]

you'll find the full story on kiwifarms. proper screwed up parenting. depressing story.

The OP contains pretty much everything you need to know about the mother.

Yeah, after reading that I'd lean towards Archie committing suicide over tik-tok challenge.