Uncapped Satellite option

[depach]

Hello all

I am doing some reasearch in to the feasability of offering
a shared uncaped satellite downlink for the bandwidth hungry people
out here. The service would be similar to the old infosat and siyanda connections, being that you will need a dvb card for your pc and a dish. Unfortunatelly the service will not be beamed from PAS10 (the dish dstv is on) so it cannot share your dstv dishes.

The service will be shared either 1:50 or 1:20 depending on what you people want no caps.


1:50 would cost about R400pm
1:20 would cost about R850pm

The system could proberly run through a vpn if the cost of a dish puts you off

Other guarenteed links over the satellite is also an option,including static ip's, more for the corporates tho http://www.sylicon.org to check out the details

pls respond to this post including the following:

1) would you subscribe to this service?
2) 1:50 or 1:20?
3) would get your own dish or prefer vpn?
4) would be interested in static ip?

l8er


to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[Perdition]

I assume this is two way satellite and not exactly like Infosat/Siyanda where you had to dial in via Telkom lines?

If this is not the case then give up now [], if it is the case then :

1) I might subscribe, you need to provide more info on expected speeds at (1:50 and 1:20) and cost of all the hardware.
2) Probably would start at 1:50 and upgrade to 1:20 if needed (I assume you can upgrade).
3) Ummm VPN via what exactly? Also own dish depends on cost (see 1)
4) Definitely static IP!

Hope this helps. Always good to see alternatives/competition in the market []

 

[VQuest]

Can you tell me what the difference would be to the Infosat service?


----------------
United we stand!
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[martin]

As Perdition said, if it's two way satellite it's definitely worth considering.

 

[depach]

It is not 2 way (illegal) and you dont have to use telkom lines , any connection to the net good enough (56k and up)


the difference between this and infosat is infosat is 64k, while this is 512k... *blink* there is also a static ip option, a option not to have to buy a dish, plus its bandwidth straigh from our uplink in uk, unlike infosat which uplinks locally and therefore has high ping rtt's.

not entirely sure why you sujjest giving up... its half the contention of another no cap service available (from reading these forums - correct me if im wrong [:I])

vpn will be to a server hosted locally which has the satellite link installed. a 90cm dish costs you about R500 satellite dvb card about R1500

about the upgrading, at first i would proberly only offer the most popular, authough 1:20 requires less pple to make it feasable

speeds expeirienced would be impossible to estimate, and anyone who tries to estimate is lying - 1:50 ... worst case scenario you would get 10.24kbit/sec best case you would get the full 512kbit/sec
[8]. the minimum bandwidth i can allocate to this is 1.5mbit so it would proberly (dont quote me on this) 1.5mbit shared between 150 users. contention ratio's become more useable when its in multiples of the contended bandwidth.

to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[BTTB]

Would I have a decent ping to play games with this product?

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">

 

[depach]

local or international servers?

if its local you just disconnect the satellite software/vpn and you will have your normal adsl pings to local networks.

international would be carried by half fiber half satellite.
ie +- 400ms pings to the first hop oversea's.

i doubt a highly contented service would suit online gaming though []

to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[BTTB]

I just play CS loacally. So it would be fine then.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">

 

[Perdition]

Ah I see now... so it's basically competition for Nocap i.e. you need ADSL to use the VPN option. If you don't have ADSL then this service is exactly like Infosat other than you get a bit more bandwidth.

I agree that contention ratios all depend on economy of scale i.e. the more bandwidth you have the higher you can push the contention given that not all users will be downloading all the time. You have answered my question though by providing the minimum bandwidth allocated []

 

[depach]

Competition yes, but i am also interested in developing this into a alternative to ADSL or mywireless.

The return path could be in the form of a digilogue line, which retail for about R900 per month (under 50km) they do go further, just not at R900 [V] We have been using these for a couple of the corporate clients and they work wonderfully []

Digilogue Line R900
Sylcion subs R400

Total R1300

would be interesting to see the responce on this [)]

to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[pookfuzz]

This is an interesting idea, but will it really be better than infosat? On infosat I currently am able to sustain a incomming throughput of about 12-16K/s, which at night usually goes up to around 20-30K/s. Outgoing througput is usually 20-30K/s. Infosat costs me about R350 or so a month and they don't seem to care how much data I do.

I had a look at the prices on the slyicon.org site, and to be honest the "pay as you go" option where you pay per gigabyte would make this service more expensive than adsl before even factoring in the telephone costs.

The "premium" options also seem rather expensive for what you get. R6682 for a 128K line just seems rather steep, its basically the same as what I get from Infosat except about 19 times more expensive!

Perhaps you need to find an alternate international provider or review your anticipated profit ratio - as it currently stands this service is unreasonably expensive compared to existing alternatives.

On the positive side at least you are trying to provide some sort of alternative to telkom.

 

[depach]

pookfuzz (corrected from typo just now) i think you have misunderstood me:

this is a service i want to offer, not currently offering.

The services on the sylicon site are aimed at corporates and are totally different from the product that i am interested in setting up.

those outgoing speeds are on infosat 2 way, or vstar?


to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[martin]

sigh... yet another service that won't be affordable to the average guy on the street.

 

[pookfuzz]

I have assumed that you are in some way affiliated with the sylicon site. And hence I based my observations on what they the site had to say.

To answer your question: I use adsl to connect to the infosat vpn. It seems just plain stupid to use digilog since at R900 pm. ADSL is cheaper AND gives me a 512k link AND 3G of international traffic AND unlimited local traffic.

To put it bluntly I am already getting the equivalent of a sylicon "corporate package" using Infosat, which is only costing me R350pm. Which tells me you must be doing a huge amount of "value-add" stuff in order to validate the prices.

Furthermore you have described the Sylicon site as having corporate packages, which implies what your are actually planning on offering is somehow less. If this is true, do you really feel the ADSL community is going to be interested in yet another service where they pay more and get less? Haven't we been exploited enough by Telkom already?

I am not trying to discourage your efforts, but your need to be realistic. There are better services out there already than what you are offering. ADSL users might be desperate but we are not stupid.

Rather than accuse you of just being just another greedy person trying to make a fast buck out of the ADSL community how about you give details we can verify about how you come up with your costing?

If I seem unreasonably negative, please forgive me. I have seen too many schemes which are of questionable value and designed solely to enrich someone. Its up to you to convince me your service will be better, cheaper, of greater value than what currently exists in the market and how your company will be a role model of ethical and fair business conduct in an industry which so far is rather ugly.

 

[TheRabbi]

Will the Pent@U+ receiver work on this system?

Ta
The Rabbi

 

[depach]

&gt;Will the Pent@U+ receiver work on this system?

yes all dvb qpsk cards that can support a symbol rate above 20000 will work. The Pent@U+ and Pent@net are actually our recommended equipment.

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&gt;To answer your question: I use adsl to connect to the infosat vpn. It seems just plain stupid to use digilog since at R900 pm. ADSL is cheaper AND gives me a 512k link AND 3G of international traffic AND unlimited local traffic.

Im sorry that you assume that all of south africa is covered by adsl, ill make a note to mention that its not targeted at you specifically next time. []



&gt;To put it bluntly I am already getting the equivalent of a sylicon "corporate package" using Infosat, which is only costing me R350pm. Which tells me you must be doing a huge amount of "value-add" stuff in order to validate the prices.

You are one of the lucky ones that infosat has overlooked. Unless they have changed their policy, using their service with a permanent line was frowned upon - hence why they started not allowing customers to have a static ip. This was pre adsl days though so it might have changed. The sylicon corporate packages supply guaranteed 1:1 bandwidth, SLA included. Does infosat supply you with this?



&gt;Furthermore you have described the Sylicon site as having corporate packages, which implies what your are actually planning on offering is somehow less. If this is true, do you really feel the ADSL community is going to be interested in yet another service where they pay more and get less? Haven't we been exploited enough by Telkom already?

Yes it is less than corporate... shared bandwidth (as i stated on my first post) vs guaranteed bandwidth. Pls show me a company in this area of the industry that offers you corporate services at consumer prices - does not make sense financially.



&gt;I am not trying to discourage your efforts, but your need to be realistic. There are better services out there already than what you are offering. ADSL users might be desperate but we are not stupid.

I share the same plight as you guys - i use adsl at home, one difference is im getting off my butt and doing something about it. IF i wanted to make a quick buck - i sure would not be dabbling in the consumer market.



&gt;Rather than accuse you of just being just another greedy person trying to make a fast buck out of the ADSL community how about you give details we can verify about how you come up with your costing?

Sure:

1 Meg CIR Guaranteed Space segment and international transit - R35000

Divide that by 100 users (1:50 x 2) and you get R350
That leaves me R50 per customer to do billing, administration, finance servers and the uplink equipment to name a few expenses.

I think for the risk involved and time this is not a quick buck business plan.


to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[freeek]

I think this might just work. You have to market it at the right ppl tho. People who go through 3 accounts a month. They Will benefit.

Internet Cafe's for one! All the need is the garenteed speed for browsing. nocap.co.za, doesn't give this speed, all they give you is a slow dialup connection. This is fine for the home user.

I would say aim at specific people to get in going. Once you have about 120 people try to get 2mb and so and so on.

..- dot dot dash

 

[depach]

I also reolised it would be very stupid to put up R30k every month where telkom could turn around and 1) offer uncapped service or 2) cap the actual line :|

to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.

 

[hanns]

Hi,

I've been using infosat now for 3 years and I've seen the minimum download speeds go from 30kbytes/sec to around 8kbytes/sec. At the moment I'm getting sick of this service and I'm looking for an alternative. The packages you mentioned sound excellent and I would definitely be interested in getting this service if you were to offer it. I'd probably go for the R400 option initially. I've already got a satellite card, so I'll just get the dish. I wouldn't be interested in a static ip.

 

[depach]

hanns: i am awaiting a quote from panamsat for their pas4 bird which might reduce the price as its pretty empty (it retires in 2010 - not so good for broadcasters)

to err is human - to totally **** things up requires a pc.