Understanding the logic behind Sentech's Fix

lewstherin

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
968
Ok so the "fix" is now in place. We all know it is far from ideal. What I'd like to do is try to understand Sentech's logic on it, and get input on the steps to take from here.

To sum the fix:
1.) Local and intl are now differentiated.
2.) Contention now seems to be applied regardless of whether or not there is anyone to contend with. (Read the 48k cap)
3.) Latency on local is by all accounts fairly stable, international is irratic.
4.) The contention cap is not distinguishing properly between packages.
5.) Packetloss is much better on local, but intl still has issues.
6.) Towers have been rearranged in some areas.
7.) New peering has been added through MTNNS
8.) Some kind of shaping is happening?

I think splitting intl and local was a good move, mainly because at least now we can get close to package speeds locally.
It would seem they may have bought more local bandwidth for this.

The network as a whole appears more stable as a result of their fixes, packetloss and latency has improved locally.

So overall has the fix improved anything?
I would say yes it has from a local browsing perspective, but not from an intl side.
The fix highlights that the main problem lies in the availability of intl bandwidth and the management thereof. Clearly something needs to be done to improve this side.

Sentech needs to find a better solution than the capped speed story for intl.
Obviously their thinking is that at least then everyone gets a fair shot at the bandwidth, and everyone gets a minimum.
The problem is that it is not reflecting the true contention status - one would expect speeds to increase past 48k during lower contention periods (eg. late at night).
My suggestion is that they build on this capped story and add bursting into it, at least then one can get more than 5k every once in a while.

Another one of Sentech's biggest problems is actually in the relative stability of their network. People can stay connected for days at a time, with scheduled downloads running continuously. Couple this with the fact that a lot of users bought Sentech in order to download in a big way. I don't think there are enough light users on the network, and usually the light users subsidise the heavy users.
This means contention goes out the window.
On ADSL this isnt a problem because of the cap - Telkom simply kicks users off the intl link when their data allocation is up. Sentech cant do this. So even with lower contention, intl is going to get raped 24/7.

Either Sentech buys more bandwidth (which is probably not affordable cos of the price), or they get more light users on the network (and then can afford more bandwidth), or they look at proxying intl as much as possible.
I think Sentech needs to do all 3.
Particularly proxying - storage is cheap these days. If Sentech dropped R100k on a proxy cluster consisting of terrabytes of storage, and simply stored everything that came through the intl link, I'm sure that would help.
Essentially bringing the popular intl internet sites local. Obviously torrents/p2p/gaming can't really be proxied, but that would be less of a problem with a full-on proxy solution.

Sentech should also look at changing their advertising in a big way.

<font color="blue">Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the </font id="blue"><font color="red">SA consumer</font id="red"><font color="blue"> needs to make it happen</font id="blue">
 

donn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
213
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sentech should also look at changing their advertising in a big way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

They should stop lying about "Enter the Sentech Broadband Zone" and apologise for misleading the public. Even at their <b>target</b> ratio of 4:1 it still reduces a 512k package to 128k, which is the absolute minimum speed for broadband.

Time to post your comments at
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2004/0409021139.asp

Sentech: ‘We're still improving'


<hr noshade size="1">
Donn Edwards

Why is ADSL like a Cheeseburger? Find out at http://privacy.4mg.com

“Free-market advocates often warn that the only thing worse than a state-controlled monopoly is a privatised one.”
 

Billy

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
3,690
Lewstherin I think that your summation is accurate. I got MyWireless because I needed always on internet, to save on the dialup costs, and because Telkom could not supply ADSL.

The connection is used for Banking, Buying Sites, EMail, and Web searches.
The saving since converting to MyWireless is about R400 per month.

I am not interested in downloading continuously or in P2P sites.

If a download of a program fix takes all night, so what, I'm at home.

So, for my usage the "fixes" have worked out fine.

However that does not change the fact that Sentech has falsly advertised, misinformed and generally abused their customers.

Perhaps they should offer the disattisfied customers an out of the contract and then market the product that they are apparently "offering" I am sure that they will get a good take up by people in a similar situation to myself.
 

loosecannon

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
731
please that was funny the words "logic" "sentech" and "fix" in one sentance ...

i think they are trying to cover up lack of BW as i belive is the just of your article ...
 

arf9999

MyBroadband Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
6,791
lewstherin, well summarised.

You forgot one thing though: the <b>NMP</b> issue.

As a subscriber to MyWireless,
Sentech's inability to offer the advertised service, because they underestimated the type of users that would subscribe - not <i>my</i> problem;
The high cost of international bandwidth - not <i>my</i> problem;
Alleged "abuse" by certain subscribers - not <i>my</i> problem;
Inefficient Finance department's inability to bill correctly - not <i>my</i> problem;
Ridiculous backend system that is unfriendly and inaccurate -not <i>my</i> problem;
Poor company image because of poor management - not <i>my</i> problem;
Network and Tower management -not <i>my</i> problem.

These are Sentech's problems, I can't fix them, so they mustn't whine about them. They offered a service, I bought the service, the service sucks. Therefore the service must be fixed or the contract is null, basically: FIX IT OR F#CK OFF. QED



MW128, Tower <b>60</b>(Northpark Plaza), Signal:16%,S-N-L: 7, BER: 45%
 

gripen

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,693
You have hit the nail on the head lewstherin. That is an intelligent breakdown of the situation for those who were unsure. Unfortunately, what you are explaining is the truth i.t.o contention going out the window.

I do believe the solution is a local proxy EVEN FOR P2P. A proxy with TB's of storage should be able to hold popular 1GB files with a TTL of lets say 1 week. That way expensive bandwidth will be saved and the users will not even realise the difference. They will be happier. They will advertise more by word of mouth. Then more subscribers will sign on and there will be more bandwidth bought. Honestly, I think it is the best solution. Similarly, providing uncapped speeds on the intranet (subject to heavy shaping to "protect" the backhaul bandwidth) should also be implemented in order to get users to download more locally than internationally.

As long as Sentech keeps on buying their (128 / 4) 32kbps international bandwidth (as is their goal) per user as each new user signs up (hopefully using their new direct access to SAT-3 if allowed by ICASA ie. Telkom) then we wont have a problem. Ok, calm down, I know 32kbps per user is ridiculous. Lets say they should add 1Mbps each time the user count increments by 60. So each new 60 signed up means Sentech must purchase another 1Mbps. What I want to know is if 1Mbps costs &lt;= 0.60 * 60 * 750 = approx R30000 (assuming wholesale rates from Telkom..not even direct to SAT-3. From what I know and my experiences (very limited) this is a reasonable rate for bandwidth. I could be way off..

Capping speed to a static number is not the answer. They speak about this sharing the bandwidth per user system but in effect they are capping to 48 or 56kbps. Its just a lie. This needs to be addressed.

Again, well done lewstherin on a well written summary.

<font size="1"><center>** still capped at <b>48kbps</b> and who knows for how long ** <font color="green"> proof </font id="green"></center></font id="size1">
 

Kaptain Khaos

Active Member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
98
/me sees Sentech techies running out to buy Proxies for Dummies, i believe they lack some serious technical skills when it comes to the basics and found out to late that MS Project does not produce project management :)

<b>in chaos all things are harmonious</b>
<i>Tower 82 14% Signal 512k package </i>
 

regardtv

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
1,537
Below is a mail I sent early on 1 September .... and my resend today...

Good Day.

I sent an e-mail of the 1st of September and would appreciate a reply from ANY of the recipients.

Regards

===================================================


Good Day Clinton,Casper and Winston & Sentech Helpdesk,

Can you confirm that all measures to fix the MyWireless network has now been implemented ?

It's the 1st of September and according to all and sundry everything should be pretty much done by now.

If everything has NOT been implemented please indicate what is still to be done and what impact if any it will have on the quality of the Sentech service.

I ask these questions because as it stands right now I can see NO reason to continue paying Sentech for a service that I am NOT receiving.

Specifically:

- Local bandwidth has returned to acceptable levels while NOT where they were when the service launched.

- Local latency, while improved over the previous 2 months is still NOT what the Sentech web site's FAQ indicated and NOT what I was receiving early in my contract period.

- Local packet loss - WOW, hands off to you guys - much better... only problem is that the MOMENT one tries to use the connection to it's full capacity packet loss returns - indicative of a poor traffic management device.

- International bandwidth - pathetic - max of 6Kb ... one would expect to see 10-12Kb average at least. Nowhere NEAR what I used to have before all the problems started.

- International latency - this has gone from sub-standard (600-700ms) to truly pathetic over the last couple of days ... averages up to 3000ms when trying to make ANY use of the international bandwidth.

- International packet loss - while downloading (38-78 %) while idle (20-45%) .. this is shocking. While this was NEVER a strong point of the MyWireless connection it has certainly gone seriously downhill since the latest "fixes" introduced to the 128K package.

I look forward to your most urgent response.

Kind regards,
 

CreepyCrawley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
150
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by greedyflyza</i>
<br />I do believe the solution is a local proxy EVEN FOR P2P. A proxy with TB's of storage should be able to hold popular 1GB files with a TTL of lets say 1 week.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Good idea... but what about legal aspects though? Assuming of course that a lot (if not most) P2P content is of questionable nature (Noone's movies and porn [:p]). I doubt that Sentech as a company would want to be held liable... just in case the copyright critters feel like kicking up a fuss.

Telkom se ma...
 

gripen

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,693
you see its not like they will be doing anything wrong. they are just putting up a huge proxy for ALL traffic. The same way that its not bittorrents fault that people use it to download illegal stuff. Yes, in effect, Sentech will need to turn a blind eye but doing so will save them money in the long run and improve the service for the customers. Anyways its just another pipe dream..

<font size="1"><center>** still capped at <b>48kbps</b> and who knows for how long ** <font color="green"> proof </font id="green"></center></font id="size1">
 

dorris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
476
scuse my ignorance, but how could a proxy ever help/cache P2P/torrents, thats gotta be one smart proxy!!!
I'm not saying the technology doesn't exist, but it seems quite difficult.
 

gripen

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,693
yeah the problem is it would need to recognise partial traffic and not only complete files. this could require some intelligence yes. basically Im saying it should cache very large files and in a dream world be browsable [:p]. no that will never happen. we need something smarter than a webcache. I mean web traffic is not that intensive anyways. Non-web stuff is not dynamic so its more likely to be successful.

<font size="1"><center>** still capped at <b>48kbps</b> and who knows for how long ** <font color="green"> proof </font id="green"></center></font id="size1">
 

Deon

Active Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
58
Okay I am going to do some Assuming and using my NoWire background...

Assume 2000 MyDraadloos users

Assume 1/2 1000 on 128 @ 12 months contracts
Assume 1/2 750 on 256 @ 12 months contracts
Assume remainder 250 512 @ 12 monthsa

I assume 12 Months because most people didnt believe in the 24 month option if given the choice but I know Sentech users werent given the option.

Now 128 contract at COST would be something like R 508.33 per month
Now 256 contract at COST would be something like R 693.52 per month
Now 512 contract at COST would be something like R 1,323.15 per month

Taking away what was commissions and other costs and only taking in monthlies.... This figure should be what Sentech gets

Now 128 with 1000 users @ R 508.33 per month = R 50,8333.3333
Now 256 with 750 users @ R 693.52 per month = R 52,0138.8889
Now 512 with 250 users @ R 1,323.15 per month = R 33,0787.037
Monthly NET = R 1,359,259.259

Now let me ASSUME that 2/3's go to Operating Expenses (yeah right)

Leaving R 453,086.4198

Which is in my quick + and - alot of dosh in one month to get together at least the first step to what you guys are talking about... a I dont know would a SAN be what you talking the right stuff, they go for like 85K or a Storage works NAS which is the same price roughly....

Drives are cheap cheap....


They can afford to make surfing appear WOW fast and also if not in the short short term "cheap cheap" for them because it will cost them hardware they can make it so darn cheap for them they could in the LONG LONG run make themselves a contender to Telkom if they get a big enough proxy set up if they get a big enough storage system up where EVERYTHING is cached for a week and then systematically re-cahched...

It seems do-able.... from my maths... hey but what do I know, I failed it in school and I dont have solid figures....
 

gripen

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,693
dude, you forgot the cost of the mercs for all the upper management and directors. Added up, those payments must total over at least R100000 a month. Surely there are parties and golfing events etc etc. Watch Carte Blanche twice to see what I mean [:p]

<font size="1"><center>** still capped at <b>48kbps</b> and who knows for how long ** <font color="green"> proof </font id="green"></center></font id="size1">
 

Deon

Active Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
58
*throws his hands up in the air* thats why I like SMME's they are so much easier budget for.... now accounts have to be opened at Daimler Crysler

ROLF.... which reminds me of a phone call I got from them where "Dear Sir we are updating our Valued Customer Records" they mistook me for a Deon in government somewhere (deputy of some portfolio in finance)... I played along so nicely cause they were talking about a nice discount..... up until they asked for my surname and my fantasy silver SL AMG disapeared... WHY!!?!?!
 

armitage

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
1,146
What i really would love to see in Za is local fileplanet mirrors just imagine you browse the inat site still but for the downloads there is an available Za server ready and eager to spread em. and just south africans would use it cause were so far from the most of the downloaders.
On the bit torrent side if a couple of guys get together and start sharing their file with bittorrent on a ftp server then it would make the downloaders hell happy cause while ure downloading ure also uploading to someone else thereby contribution to a faster network.


Proud South african rip offs.
 
Top