Unita shakes foundations of MPLA, slashing ruling party’s majority by 27% in Angola

[PrimeSteak]

I don't know why you find it strange,

For a government hellbent on racial division and discrimination they worked with UNITA with no qualms...

I find it strange because working with UNITA in glee, kind of goes against their "swart gevaar" and their entire ideology...?

 

[TheChamp]

I'm referring to post Angola independence when SA had completely withdrawn. Ex SADF members from company's like Executive Outcomes were recruited to assist MPLA in toppling Unita after they returned to armed resistance.

And why would you think an MK soldier would leave a newly liberated country like SA with lot of opportunities to be a mercenary in Angola?

 

[TheChamp]

I find it strange because working with UNITA in glee, kind of goes against their "swart gevaar" and their entire ideology...?

The worked with black homeland leaders to oppress black people here, why would they have a problem with working with black people in Angola if the relationship was benefial to their agenda?

 

[PrimeSteak]

What would have happened to liberate Zim from Zanu?

If MDC-T didn't coalesce with ZANU-PF in 2008.

After that election, MDC-T support imploded harder than COPE's. Basically keeping ZANU-PF in power till now.

 

[PrimeSteak]

The worked with black homeland leaders to oppress black people here, why would they have a problem with working with black people in Angola if the relationship was benefial to their agenda?

You have a point there...

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Good thing that Unita has become civilised enough to take part in election, it's good for the democracy of the country.

UNITA has always taken part in the elections. Now that they get a greater portion of the vote they suddenly become civilised? So the greater your majority, the more civilised you are according to your logic.?

 

[PrimeSteak]

Yep, the median time for post liberation movement governments seems to be 30 - 40 years.

Seems like. @Priapus has mentioned this before.

 

[TheChamp]

If MDC-T didn't coalesce with ZANU-PF in 2008.

After that election, MDC-T support imploded harder than COPE's. Basically keeping ZANU-PF in power till now.

I don't think Mbeki'd interference was a factor, Mugabe would have pummeled everyone who dared to challenge him into submission and rule the land.

The only that could have made a difference would have been SA closing the gate, forcing Zimbabweeans to have no choice but rise against Mugabe, even now Zimbabweans here don't bother with elections, it's just another day for them.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I find it strange tho. For a government hellbent on racial division and discrimination they worked with UNITA with no qualms...

It's not as black and white as that. Excuse the pun.

Remember that there were many black members of the SADF too, all volunteers and treated exactly the same as the white members. There was no apartheid in the military except that whites had to serve two years by law.

Angola was a hot theatre of the cold war with Russian empirical ambitions. Had the NP government co-operated with the Russians and SA became under their influence, apartheid would have been far worse and the Russians would never have used it as a weapon in the UN in their empirical ambitions to take SA and Namibia for their minerals. They needed cheap labour for the mines and farms and SA would have been a vassal state of the Soviet Union as the impoverished states of Eastern Europe were.

FAPLA (Angola MPLA) and PLAN (Namibia SWAPO) were the equivalent of the Ukranian Donetsk and Luhansk cannon fodder regiments of the Russian army chased into combat against the SADF and UNITA by the Cubans who were chased by the Russians.

UNITA was supported by SA as they were opposed to communism and were under the influence of the West.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

The struggle movement/party that was preferred by the oppressor.

View attachment 1376617

Were UNITA oppressed by the South Africans?

 

[sefeddt]

And why would you think an MK soldier would leave a newly liberated country like SA with lot of opportunities to be a mercenary in Angola?

Lol they were never sourced by the MPLA, anyhow what happened to comradeship, Angola offered them camps for training etc, we keep hearing about "owing" Cuba for their assistance.

 

[PrimeSteak]

Angola was a hot theatre of the cold war with Russian empirical ambitions.

Ik. Americans backed UNITA and the old regime. Russians and Cubans backed MPLA.

 

[TheChamp]

Were UNITA oppressed by the South Africans?

Good question.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Yet the same MPLA used many former "enemy" to crush Unita's armed resistance. What's also interesting is that the MPLA did not include any former MK militants, knowing how useless they were.

Exactly. The war against UNITA was won for Angola's MPLA by South African mercenaries who were former SADF and fighting for the Angolan government as part of former Captain Eeben Barlow of 32 Battalion's Private military Company Executive Outcomes. Former SADF Colonel Roelf van Heerden of Executive Outcomes was commissioned into the Angolan Army so as to have authority over the Angolan troops.

I worked with a former member of the Angolan Army that serveed under the South Africans to defeat UNITA at Soyo. He had the greatest respect for me when he found out i was former SADF and embarrasingly took to saluting me at our first contact every morning at work to the bemusement of our US and British colleagues. The veterans understood the mutual respect.

MK never fought against anyone but themselves in their camps and the Angolans were actually quite disgusted by them.

None of this will be found in SA history books

 

[TheChamp]

It's not as black and white as that. Excuse the pun.

Remember that there were many black members of the SADF too, all volunteers and treated exactly the same as the white members. There was no apartheid in the military except that whites had to serve two years by law.

Yeah, right, couldn't treat black people the same way as white everywhere else yet somehow those in SADF are treated the same as whites? You have jokes.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I don't know why you find it strange, they wanted to topple MPLA and they found an ally in Unita, not like they had a choice of a white rebel army they could use in Angola.

You have no clue about the situation. SA wanted no part in any war in Angola. They were forced to fight there and in Namibia or have the operational area and war against the Cubans and Russians in Springbok or Upington in the Northern Cape.

 

[PrimeSteak]

MK never fought against anyone but themselves in their camps and the Angolans were actually quite disgusted by them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you referring to the actions of Mbokodo?

None of this will be found in SA history books

Depends on the books you read. Perhaps not standardized history school books (from my time in school, the border war was never mentioned, SWAPO I think got a mention).

 

[TheChamp]

You have no clue about the situation. SA wanted no part in any war in Angola. They were forced to fight there and in Namibia or have the operational area and war against the Cubans and Russians in Springbok or Upington in the Northern Cape.

I have a clue that you are talking rubbish as you usually do.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

What would have happened to liberate Zim from Zanu?

South Africa declared the obviously rigged elections free and fair under Thabo Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy" policy on Zimbabwe.

I lived this period. You are now out of your knowledge boundaries imposed by the ANC.

 

[TheChamp]

South Africa declared the obviously rigged elections free and fair under Thabo Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy" policy on Zimbabwe.

I lived this period. You are now out of your knowledge boundaries imposed by the ANC.

Now you are telling I wasn't alive during that time, I am honestly flattered but seriously how young do you think I am?