Unita shakes foundations of MPLA, slashing ruling party’s majority by 27% in Angola

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
I find it strange because working with UNITA in glee, kind of goes against their "swart gevaar" and their entire ideology...?

Exactly. You're now seeing past your ANC history book that was thrust into your hands at school like the new Ukrainian history books are being thrust into the hands of school kids by the occupying Russians.
 

TheChamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
57,358
Exactly. You're now seeing past your ANC history book that was thrust into your hands at school like the new Ukrainian history books are being thrust into the hands of school kids by the occupying Russians.
Behold the enlightenment.
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
The worked with black homeland leaders to oppress black people here, why would they have a problem with working with black people in Angola if the relationship was benefial to their agenda?

Ever notice many of those in the homelands governments became ANC politicians post 1994? Remember Stella Sigcau? Bantu Holomisa?
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
You have a point there...

Not the point. The homelands have been retained under the ANC as traditional areas and fall under the leadership of kings, Chiefs and Headmen. Land cannot be bought there with a title deed. You have two systems of government in a single country.
 

TheChamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
57,358
Ever notice many of those in the homelands governments became ANC politicians post 1994? Remember Stella Sigcau? Bantu Holomisa?
They were always ANC supporters, not like they saw the light in 94. Gqozo, Mangope, Ramodike, Ramushwana and The Prince from the Great House of Phindangene never became ANC politicians.
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
I don't think Mbeki'd interference was a factor, Mugabe would have pummeled everyone who dared to challenge him into submission and rule the land.

The only that could have made a difference would have been SA closing the gate, forcing Zimbabweeans to have no choice but rise against Mugabe, even now Zimbabweans here don't bother with elections, it's just another day for them.

Mbeki had a "quiet diplomacy" policy toward Mugabe. It actually meant co-operation, friendship and support.
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
Yeah, right, couldn't treat black people the same way as white everywhere else yet somehow those in SADF are treated the same as whites? You have jokes.

I served in the SADF. Did you? Do these guys look oppressed:

396d9b9ca5963853bb9e073d78fecdd4.jpg


38761f40600c02ba13c7d5b82f4eb7e8.jpg


MDRUM_Africas_Cold_War-6.jpg
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you referring to the actions of Mbokodo?

Mbokodo were the people described in this excerpt of Paul Trewhela's book on the camps in Angola:

In 1981 began a time of terror and death for ANC members in exile. In February a strong ANC National Executive Committee entourage which incuded President Tambo made the rounds of all ANC camps in Angola.....

.....I became aware of these developments by word of mouth, but I was to discover later on, by personal experience, the terror of Quatro, to name but one death camp. People were removed from amongst us -- taken to Quatro or Camp 13 -- and disappeared forever without reason. Many of them were slaughtered by one means or another and their ultimate destination was a shallow grave. We heard rumours of execution by being buried alive, amongst many other techniques beyond civilized imagination. The purge created great fear amongst all of us, to the point where the smallest criticism, such as of badly prepared food, was seriously reconsidered by every individual, for one could never be certain that a 'best friend' would keep his mouth shut.....

....Our own security people became exceedingly arrogant, to the point where an innocent slip of the tongue or even a simple gesture could land you in a torture cell at Quatro. Security men of the lowest rank and intelligence -- fourteen to eighteen year olds -- became our masters, with the power of life or death in their hands. They acted on a mood with impunity.....

....Oliver Tambo visited Pango [Camp] at the height of the terror. The path from the entrance to the admin building was lined -- like a scene from 'Spartacus' -- with men, bloodied and filthy, hanging from trees. When his entourage arrived at admin, where I was officer on duty, Tambo's chief of staff told us that there would be a meeting at 'the stage' (a clearing in the jungle..
 

TheChamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
57,358
I served in the SADF. Did you? Do these guys look oppressed:

396d9b9ca5963853bb9e073d78fecdd4.jpg


38761f40600c02ba13c7d5b82f4eb7e8.jpg


MDRUM_Africas_Cold_War-6.jpg
You also don't look oppressed even though the ANC oppresses you 24hrs a day, every single day you come in here, head held up high with no sign of the hardship you face every day, that is called human resilience.
 

PrimeSteak

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
15,126
Mbokodo were the people described in this excerpt of Paul Trewhela's book on the camps in Angola:

In 1981 began a time of terror and death for ANC members in exile. In February a strong ANC National Executive Committee entourage which incuded President Tambo made the rounds of all ANC camps in Angola.....

.....I became aware of these developments by word of mouth, but I was to discover later on, by personal experience, the terror of Quatro, to name but one death camp. People were removed from amongst us -- taken to Quatro or Camp 13 -- and disappeared forever without reason. Many of them were slaughtered by one means or another and their ultimate destination was a shallow grave. We heard rumours of execution by being buried alive, amongst many other techniques beyond civilized imagination. The purge created great fear amongst all of us, to the point where the smallest criticism, such as of badly prepared food, was seriously reconsidered by every individual, for one could never be certain that a 'best friend' would keep his mouth shut.....

....Our own security people became exceedingly arrogant, to the point where an innocent slip of the tongue or even a simple gesture could land you in a torture cell at Quatro. Security men of the lowest rank and intelligence -- fourteen to eighteen year olds -- became our masters, with the power of life or death in their hands. They acted on a mood with impunity.....

....Oliver Tambo visited Pango [Camp] at the height of the terror. The path from the entrance to the admin building was lined -- like a scene from 'Spartacus' -- with men, bloodied and filthy, hanging from trees. When his entourage arrived at admin, where I was officer on duty, Tambo's chief of staff told us that there would be a meeting at 'the stage' (a clearing in the jungle..
So I'm right or...? The way I see 'em they were basically the ANC's Security Branch (learnt about this from The President's Keepers by Jacques Pauw).
 

Kola-CT

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2022
Messages
1,345
You also don't look oppressed even though the ANC oppresses you 24hrs a day, every single day you come in here, head held up high with no sign of the hardship you face every day, that is called human resilience.

Unita was not oppressed by South Africa (SADF), certainly not in the time I was there.
We worked very well with them and there was mutual respect between the Unita troops and the SADF members who worked with them, training them and fighting with them.

Having said that, that was on the ground, I cannot speak for the intentions of the politicians since we were all used by them.
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
Depends on the books you read. Perhaps not standardized history school books (from my time in school, the border war was never mentioned, SWAPO I think got a mention).

Of course. The border war is never mentioned as it will put a rather inconvenient spin on the story the ANC wants to be known. Not to mention the atrocities in the camps and the actual number of blacks killed in SA by the ANC (About 21 000) and the apartheid government (518).
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
I have a clue that you are talking rubbish as you usually do.

Accusations again with no backup? As usual. Note that I am backing up everything I'm putting in here. Try to do the same if you want to debate on the same level and not out of pure emotion and "feelings".
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,136
Now you are telling I wasn't alive during that time, I am honestly flattered but seriously how young do you think I am?

I'm telling you that you're outside your knowledge boundaries enhanced by a saintly view of the ANC and "liberation" movements.
 
Top