Universities can’t keep up with huge demand for computer science

cguy

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It's actually not the easiest ticket out of SA, in fact it's becoming harder, what I've seen as easier tickets is the blue collar stuff.

Blue collar isn’t even the same ballpark.

http://needu.com/blog/main/skilled-migration-to-australia-9-hidden-nuggets-of-truth

Only 16.7% of skilled immigrants in Australia are technicians and tradesmen. That’s also Australia which has one of the highest demands for these skills. It’s nearly impossible for most desirable countries.
 
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Lupus

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Blue collar isn’t even the same ballpark.
Yeah but if they get over, guess who ends up making more. The average per hour for a plumber in Australia is 60 dollars, the average for a developer/coder/programmer is 30 dollars.
Computer science is all well and good, but it's a market that's over saturated, unless you're in a rare language or really know your stuff a lot of the work is outsourced to India now.
 

cguy

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Yeah but if they get over, guess who ends up making more. The average per hour for a plumber in Australia is 60 dollars, the average for a developer/coder/programmer is 30 dollars.
Computer science is all well and good, but it's a market that's over saturated, unless you're in a rare language or really know your stuff a lot of the work is outsourced to India now.

The average senior software developer in Aus makes around $60/h, excluding bonuses, stock grants and benefits. That includes a significant amount of front end web developers and such. People with computer science degrees will earn a lot more. In the US, the average is around 3x more (than plumbers, electricians, etc.)
 

vic777

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Computer science is all well and good, but it's a market that's over saturated, unless you're in a rare language or really know your stuff a lot of the work is outsourced to India now.

Not the case at all in Europe. Lots of opportunities for people who have the skill and can demonstrate it
 

Cicero

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Yup, I'm in London at the moment and software developers here make a really decent salary. Perhaps not to the extent of those in the SF Bay area, but way, way above average. Demand is still very high for skilled workers.
 

Hamster

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Oh I was very interested in it, until I realised that the only real coding jobs in SA are 90% financial and you end up working late and financial coding is boring :)
Luckily South Africa has moved out of the 90s and dark ages.
 

HennieWelkom

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Yeah I was a coder for a short while, was like noooope. Moved into Linux Sys Admin eventually and I do prefer that.
let the drones do the work that changes the world while you fiddle with the router, Linux he, pretty niche brah
 

HennieWelkom

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Yup, I'm in London at the moment and software developers here make a really decent salary. Perhaps not to the extent of those in the SF Bay area, but way, way above average. Demand is still very high for skilled workers.
silicone valley is one of the most expensive places to live in the world, the cost of living is total craziness. Whole of California just seems to me like a big province full of Julius Malemas, I'd probably prefer to settle in a place just a little bit more conservative.
 

cguy

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silicone valley is one of the most expensive places to live in the world, the cost of living is total craziness. Whole of California just seems to me like a big province full of Julius Malemas, I'd probably prefer to settle in a place just a little bit more conservative.

The cost of housing is high, but once you’ve eaten that (I paid off my 2br/2bth condo there in 4 years), everything else is relatively cheap, and at the end of the day, you own an expensive property.
 

Ancalagon

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Lots of salty people in this thread.

I get the hate for software development - sometimes I have wondered whether I made the right decision to begin a career in it. But like any career, it has its upsides and its downsides. A lot of it depends on the choices you make - probably even more so than how hard you work. If you make the right choices at university and when you select an employer, you can end up in a very, very good job. If you make some mistakes, like I did, you can end up in a very good job but it can take you a little bit longer.

In all my 12 years of software development, the only time I worked routine and excessive overtime was when I was running my own video game company. I can think of only one or two other occasions where overtime was required on a temporary basis - most of them being deployments, and in those cases, overtime was rewarded with going home early the next day.

These days, with deployments being more and more automated, even that doesn't happen.
 

Polymathic

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Oh I was very interested in it, until I realised that the only real coding jobs in SA are 90% financial and you end up working late and financial coding is boring :). There was also the big drive in the 90s that computers were the next big thing for money, even though most of us who'd been tinkering with them since the earlier days knew it probably wasn't going to be the case.
In the 90s people were selling Microsoft office certifications as computers science degrees :p
 

cguy

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In the 90s people were selling Microsoft office certifications as computers science degrees :p

M.CSiEnce...

I remember people saying that an MCSE was basically a technikon IT diploma and an MCSD was a BSC CS.
 

ArtyLoop

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Yeah but if they get over, guess who ends up making more. The average per hour for a plumber in Australia is 60 dollars, the average for a developer/coder/programmer is 30 dollars.
Computer science is all well and good, but it's a market that's over saturated, unless you're in a rare language or really know your stuff a lot of the work is outsourced to India now.
True this.
Thank the gods I managed to become very skilled at what I do, despite the criticisms on my terminology from the likes of roi_za on this forum.
 

John Tempus

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Computer Science is perfectly positioned to educate from home with internet connection.

There is NO way you would get better info just by sitting at a campus using the internet for information compared to doing the same from home at ZERO cost.

I can understand that doctors and other physical education makes sense in a setting like a campus but the magic of mostly all IT related training can be performed from home without the need to have influx of students.

Better yet, a student who can perform the same or better from home using the internet resources would likely be a much better programmer at the end of the day than someone who got spoodfed at a campus essentially regurgitating design steps taught to them without any unique creativity applied to the problems.
 

John Tempus

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The average senior software developer in Aus makes around $60/h, excluding bonuses, stock grants and benefits. That includes a significant amount of front end web developers and such. People with computer science degrees will earn a lot more. In the US, the average is around 3x more (than plumbers, electricians, etc.)

I think there is too much generalization here. These hypothetical averages only apply if you end up working for some well established company. The vast majority of devs who either work outsourced or on contract do not get close to this. We recruit a ton of devs from USA,phillipines,india,pakistan all year round. Even the devs who I would count as average or above average in their ability would be lucky to get $20 a hour working somewhere else and our average rates is $15 / hour which seems to relate much closer to the current average non-high profile job dev would make even in the USA.

The market is overly saturated in most common desired programming skills. If you specialize in some still sought after programming language then you have a less saturated market and the rates do go up quite a bit.

Right now most people are still looking for work in php,js market overwhelmingly thus the per hour rate above fit the saturated market.
 

ArtyLoop

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Yup, I'm in London at the moment and software developers here make a really decent salary. Perhaps not to the extent of those in the SF Bay area, but way, way above average. Demand is still very high for skilled workers.
My employer is flirting with the idea of stationing me there in the future to deal with the EU divison's software and hardware problems.
 

cguy

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I think there is too much generalization here. These hypothetical averages only apply if you end up working for some well established company. The vast majority of devs who either work outsourced or on contract do not get close to this. We recruit a ton of devs from USA,phillipines,india,pakistan all year round. Even the devs who I would count as average or above average in their ability would be lucky to get $20 a hour working somewhere else and our average rates is $15 / hour which seems to relate much closer to the current average non-high profile job dev would make even in the USA.

The market is overly saturated in most common desired programming skills. If you specialize in some still sought after programming language then you have a less saturated market and the rates do go up quite a bit.

Right now most people are still looking for work in php,js market overwhelmingly thus the per hour rate above fit the saturated market.

Devs with computer science degrees at $15/h in the USA? What are you smoking? That’s barely above minimum wage. Our interns make $60-90 an hour.
 
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