#UnrestSA: Retrieved goods must be destroyed for the sake of the economy, says Ntshavheni

Sollie

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There are multiple issues at play here, and as much as we may not agree with Ntshavheni's uttering on this, its very likely what will happen purely due to the logistics of the whole thing.

Firstly there is the issue of who "owns" the goods after the insurance claims have been settled. Especially since SASRIA have delegated that normal insurers can process SASRIA claims up to R50k (if memory serves me correctly)
Then there is the issue of actually selling the goods in a reasonable orderly fashion at a value that doesn't totally undermine the retail sector. As much as people are saying that the middle/upper class would buy new appliances anyway that would not be borne out in reality. If someone could legitimately get a R15k fridge or R40k TV for 50% off, that works fine and looks good but doesn't have a warranty, even the upper and middle class would potentially be customers and that makes a significant dent in the retail market.

Then of course there are going to be the on running legal battles in relation to the products seized. If I bought a fridge 6 months ago, I don't necessarily keep the slip or the boxes for it so I would have almost zero immediate ability to prove ownership. Yes I could get my bank statements, or get the store to confirm legal ownership but that is not something the police are going to give 2 shytes about when they are rounding up goods at that point. So as those "processes" are playing out the police or insurance can't necessarily sell the goods to a 3rd party.
Valid points if done in an uncontrolled way.

However, manufacturers will have many serials, can trace the logistics and supply chain etc. To then add a serial and a special condition is not difficult. The trick is to control how these items are donated/sold. Anything that can be abused will be abused. This is not new logistical problem, just on a different scale. If there really is a will, there will be a way.

Some ideas:
Charities
Large scale natural disasters - use insurance items to replace on insurance?
Uninsured parties that lost everything. The items were already paid for - if they can prove payment?
...
 

Sollie

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What they should do is let the looters keep the stuff but each person should have to pay a fine equivalent to the value of the goods + damages. If you can't pay the fine you go to jail.
The fine goes to a fund to support the businesses affected.
Sounds a bit like the chap that stole a new heap of lawn dressing off my pavement one year. Managed to find out and prove who it is. That year I "sold" the first heap for a 100% markup, then promptly ordered double the amount, nice extra for the beds etc.
 

Sollie

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I think he means going thru an entire house and getting every serial number of every device/asset and sending it off for investigation. If they haven't been defaced to hide guilt.

Times that by thousands.
Actually - hammer/nail/head. Add typos of the checkers ...

Perhaps we should be talking bar codes. That uniquely links to a manufacturer, serial nr etc. All this data is already in a database somewhere. Add the tech available. It is actually a breeze once you have the data available. All that is needed is a consolidated database. Hell, even a cheap 4GB PC with a SSD (preferably mirrored ) and a MySQL or PostgreSQL DB will work. Or a small VPS at an ISP. All that's needed is the barcode, mfr and serial with a stolen Y/N boolean. Add an API. Add the Android scanner app talking to the DB - presto. Such an app can be rolled out in a day by a bored medium level dev.

Point phone, click. Details pop up.
- Green - cop smiles.
- Red - cop frowns.
 

Gyre

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Oct 16, 2011
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2,056
Actually - hammer/nail/head. Add typos of the checkers ...

Perhaps we should be talking bar codes. That uniquely links to a manufacturer, serial nr etc. All this data is already in a database somewhere. Add the tech available. It is actually a breeze once you have the data available. All that is needed is a consolidated database. Hell, even a cheap 4GB PC with a SSD (preferably mirrored ) and a MySQL or PostgreSQL DB will work. Or a small VPS at an ISP. All that's needed is the barcode, mfr and serial with a stolen Y/N boolean. Add an API. Add the Android scanner app talking to the DB - presto. Such an app can be rolled out in a day by a bored medium level dev.

Point phone, click. Details pop up.
- Green - cop smiles.
- Red - cop frowns.

That I get, for me it was the admin and communication, along with there being so many different brands and suppliers of those brands.

What was done easily in a week by looters could take months to accomplish by organised teams tied down by procedures.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
98,089
Valid points if done in an uncontrolled way.

However, manufacturers will have many serials, can trace the logistics and supply chain etc. To then add a serial and a special condition is not difficult. The trick is to control how these items are donated/sold. Anything that can be abused will be abused. This is not new logistical problem, just on a different scale. If there really is a will, there will be a way.

Some ideas:
Charities
Large scale natural disasters - use insurance items to replace on insurance?
Uninsured parties that lost everything. The items were already paid for - if they can prove payment?
...

At a small scale that could probably work without a doubt.

My concern would be the admin effort involved in doing this across multiple retailers/insurance companies etc is going to be huge and that raises the question of whether its worth it for the insurers to do so.
 

CommonSense

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
656
That I get, for me it was the admin and communication, along with there being so many different brands and suppliers of those brands.

What was done easily in a week by looters could take months to accomplish by organised teams tied down by procedures.

Exactly, what people probably don't understand fully is that administrative overhead of tracking and verifying goods would probably cost more than the profit they could expect from the recovered goods.

And who here would trust any government organization to distribute the recovered items to charities.
I might be jaded, but I think there will be more looting, just not so visible to 'connected' people.

There will probably be one huge PR handing over of a washing machine or something to one or two charities, but the vast majority will probably go to friends and family or somehow get "lost" in the system in any case.

I am glad that most want needy cases to benefit from the recovered goods, but the cost and manpower required to administer that would be huge. Who will pay for that?

So sadly, the only logical choice is to destroy it. Sad, but that is reality.
 

Acid0

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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
4,554
Let the public buy it and ALL the monies go to your charity of choice

Once purchased the charity will get a confirmation of what was paid and they can expect the monies soon
 
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