[US] Alabama’s abortion ban: How Senators voted on rape, incest exceptions; final bill

CarsinemiA

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Or, you know, don't have kids if you can't afford them instead of expecting the state to fix these individual's personal mess ups. It always comes down to the issue of taking personal responsibility and accountability. If you are not prepared to have children, practice safe sex. If you do not do that, you need to accept the consequences of your actions. Instead, world wide, we have an industry aborting 106 babies world wide every minute.
Are... Are you really that dense?

This whole thread is about the ban on abortion specifically surrounding rape and incest, and you then say that these people should take "accountability and responsibility"....

"Please Mr Rapist sir, will you be so kind as to use a condom? I don't want to get pregnant..."

The whole reason these people want the abortions is because they did not have sex willingly.

They're removing sex ed and replacing it with "abstinence only education"
They're making it difficult for these people to get contraceptives
They're making it nearly impossible for these people to remove the unwanted consequences of the above two.

And by your logic, tell me, are blowjobs cannibalism?
 

konfab

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Yes, there is a morality consideration with abortion that should make us hesitate to be too enthusiastic about its advocacy. I'm certainly not comfortable with the idea of terminating a baby's life. I'm pro-choice but only on the balance that I believe there are stronger arguments to be made in favour of it than against it.
That is basically my position as well. People saying it is a right etc are not making a coherent argument IMO.
The reasonable position that is backed up by evidence is that the personhood of a foetus is incremental to its development. It is not immediate at conception like the pro-life people seem to think it is and it is most certainly not 1s after it sticks its head out like some of the radical pro-choice people want (like in NYC).

The vast majority of people sit somewhere in the middle of this. And the legislation surrounding this should reflect that.
This is an interesting perspective from the pro-life side that I think is pretty relevant here:

The timing is right. For two generations the Roe decision has distorted American politics. Millions of voters cast their ballots for president primarily to influence that president’s judicial picks, and there is now a majority of justices on the ballot picked by presidents who openly ran on a pro-life platform. Donald Trump would still be the Apprentice host but for his pro-life pledges. Have 20 years of political activism been in vain? Have federal elections polarized to the point of mutual partisan hatred merely to decide whether doctors must have admitting privileges at a local hospital before they kill a child?

It’s worth knowing where the justices stand, and either way a decisive ruling has the potential to deescalate national politics for a generation. If the court overturns Roe, rightfully holding that the federal constitution is silent on abortion, then the battle turns to the states. In many respects local politics would rise in importance relative to national politics, and Americans would be able to express their fundamental values through the ballot box.

If, however, Roe is upheld and the legal battle over abortion is reduced — both now and for the foreseeable future — to fights over far-more-marginal issues like admitting privileges, clinic regulations, and late-term abortion bans (that apply only to a small minority of abortions), then pro-life Americans would understand that presidents and judges have treated them like Lucy with the football: inducing them to vote on the issue that is more important to them than any other, only to protect the status quo. No longer could (or should) these Americans be manipulated into voting for candidates based on false promises. Instead, they could fundamentally reorient their strategy and resources away from the men and women who’ve failed them time and again
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019...hrowing-down-the-gauntlet-against-roe-good-2/


They're removing sex ed and replacing it with "abstinence only education"
They're making it difficult for these people to get contraceptives
They're making it nearly impossible for these people to remove the unwanted consequences of the above two.

And by your logic, tell me, are blowjobs cannibalism?
[citation needed]

Please give me the name of the bill that prevents shops from selling contraceptives...

It is so difficult to get contraceptives in the US that you can order them directly to your door step by simply pressing a few buttons.
THOSE DAMN NAZI FASCIST REPUBLICANS!!!!
https://www.amazon.com/Trojan-Ultra...words=Condoms&qid=1557987383&s=gateway&sr=8-1
 
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konfab

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That is literally communist level statistics.
If abortion is more difficult to get, then woman with riskier pregnancies are more likely to abort than carry through to term.

This is exactly why a 3rd world $hithole like Cuba has very low infant mortality. They simply "encourage" woman with risky pregnancies to abort and the dead foetus doesn't count towards the statistics.

Coercing or pressuring patients into having abortions artificially improve infant mortality by preventing marginally riskier births from occurring help doctors meet their centrally fixed targets. At 72.8 abortions per 100 births, Cuba has one of the highest abortion rates in the world.6 If only 5% of the abortions are actually pressured abortions meant to keep health statistics up, life expectancy at birth must be lowered by a sizeable amount. If we combine the misreporting of late fetal deaths and pressured abortions, life expectancy would drop by between 1.46 and 1.79 years for men. In Figure 1 below, we show that that with this adjustment alone, instead of being first in the ranking of life expectancy at birth for men in Latin America and the Caribbean, Cuba falls either to the third or fourth place depending on the range.7
https://www.econlib.org/about-that-cuban-life-expectancy/
 

Emjay

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Are... Are you really that dense?

This whole thread is about the ban on abortion specifically surrounding rape and incest, and you then say that these people should take "accountability and responsibility"....

"Please Mr Rapist sir, will you be so kind as to use a condom? I don't want to get pregnant..."

The whole reason these people want the abortions is because they did not have sex willingly.

They're removing sex ed and replacing it with "abstinence only education"
They're making it difficult for these people to get contraceptives
They're making it nearly impossible for these people to remove the unwanted consequences of the above two.

And by your logic, tell me, are blowjobs cannibalism?
Another one that comes into the conversation with only a fraction of the understanding. I am not against abortion you mouth breather. If you actually read the thread you would have realized this. I think it is morally reprehensible, hence why I think that personal responsibility is a large part of this answer. Abortions due to rape, incest and health complications represent around 1% of all abortions done in the USA. So, please tell me, how do those other 99% of women fall pregnant if they are not raped and are "having sex unwillingly"? Immaculate conception?

Are oocytes present in the mouth? The same answer here applies to your absolutely stupid and irrelevant question around blowjobs. I think you should go open a textbook at learn a little bit about fertilization.
 
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Unhappy438

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[citation needed]

Please give me the name of the bill that prevents shops from selling contraceptives...

It is so difficult to get contraceptives in the US that you can order them directly to your door step by simply pressing a few buttons.
THOSE DAMN NAZI FASCIST REPUBLICANS!!!!
https://www.amazon.com/Trojan-Ultra...words=Condoms&qid=1557987383&s=gateway&sr=8-1

One fifth of the representatives in the House have signed on to a bill sponsored by Republican John Becker that would prohibit most insurance companies from offering coverage for abortion services.

“The intent is to save lives and reduce the cost of employers and employees health care insurance," Becker says.

The bill would ban nontherapeutic abortions that include "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”

And Becker says the bill also speaks to coverage of ectopic or tubal pregnancies where the fertilized egg attaches outside of the womb.

“Part of that treatment would be removing that embryo from the fallopian tube and reinserting it in the uterus so that is defined as not an abortion under this bill," Becker explains.

“That doesn’t exist in the realm of treatment for ectopic pregnancy. You can’t just re-implant. It’s not a medical thing," says Jaime Miracle, deputy director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio.

She says, under this bill, women would have to wait until their very lives were in danger to get an abortion in the case of an ectopic pregnancy.

“This bill will have grave impacts on Ohio’s infant and maternal mortality rate," Miracle says.

And she says that’s not all. She says it will ban insurance from covering popular methods of birth control.

“Birth control pills, IUD’s and other methods of birth control like that – the bill states that any birth control that could act to stop a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus is considered an abortion under this bill," Miracle says.
https://www.statenews.org/post/ohio...abortion-bill-more-restrictive-heartbeat-bill
 

Unhappy438

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Another one that comes into the conversation with only a fraction of the understanding. I am not against abortion you mouth breather. If you actually read the thread you would have realized this. I think it is morally reprehensible, hence why I think that personal responsibility is a large part of this answer. Abortions due to rape, incest and health complications represent around 1% of all abortions done in the USA. So, please tell me, how do those other 99% of women fall pregnant if they are not raped and are "having sex unwillingly"? Immaculate conception?

Is an oocytes present in the mouth? The same answer here applies to your absolutely stupid and irrelevant question around blowjobs. I think you should go open a textbook at learn a little bit about fertilization.
Actually his post was about how these same Republicans wont want to financially support women who they are forcing to have a rape baby. You then replied that they must take personal responsibility.

And you can bet these same idiot republicans will be the first to vote on a bill to remove all welfare rights of the mother's concerned.
Mothers concerned being the ones being forced to have the rape baby.
 
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CarsinemiA

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490
Another one that comes into the conversation with only a fraction of the understanding. I am not against abortion you mouth breather. If you actually read the thread you would have realized this.
If that is the case then I apologise.

My argument stands however; if a woman is forced to deliver a child conceived unwillingly by laws set down by the state, the state should provide for the child's upbringing.
 

cerebus

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If that is the case then I apologise.

My argument stands however; if a woman is forced to deliver a child conceived unwillingly by laws set down by the state, the state should provide for the child's upbringing.
She's not 'against' abortion, she just has 10 perfectly reasonable restrictions that she wants enacted, plus she thinks women should use contraception or be forced to face the consequences of their actions.
 

daveza

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She's not 'against' abortion, she just has 10 perfectly reasonable restrictions that she wants enacted, plus she thinks women should use contraception or be forced to face the consequences of their actions.
Catholics not big in Alabamy ?
 

Emjay

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She's not 'against' abortion, she just has 10 perfectly reasonable restrictions that she wants enacted, plus she thinks women should use contraception or be forced to face the consequences of their actions.
Which ones on my list are unreasonable, cerebus? Instead of doing sly comments like that say what you mean and argue my points. Unless you want to use that very poor Contrapoints type reasoning by saying because I say I am not against abortion, I really am but trying to just disguise it.
 

cerebus

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Which ones on my list are unreasonable, cerebus? Instead of doing sly comments like that say what you mean and argue my points. Unless you want to use that very poor Contrapoints type reasoning by saying because I say I am not against abortion, I really am but trying to just disguise it.
I'm saying exactly what I mean to say. You're not against abortion, but you think it's morally reprehensible and 'personal responsibility' is the answer? How can you possibly reconcile that standpoint? Are you telling me you believe that if a woman gets drunk and finds herself non-immaculately conceived, she should be able to go to her local chop shop and get the unwanted irruption excised?
 

Emjay

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I'm saying exactly what I mean to say. You're not against abortion, but you think it's morally reprehensible and 'personal responsibility' is the answer? How can you possibly reconcile that standpoint? Are you telling me you believe that if a woman gets drunk and finds herself non-immaculately conceived, she should be able to go to her local chop shop and get the unwanted irruption excised?
Or how about she just gets the morning after pill, no? Not. That. Hard.
 

daveza

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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-governor-signs-abortion-bill_n_5cdc8d70e4b0b4728ba29a22

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (R) signed the nation’s strictest abortion bill on Wednesday, making it a felony in the state for a doctor to perform an abortion in nearly all cases.
“To the bill’s many supporters, this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious and that every life is a sacred gift from God,” she said in a statement.
Wiki

Alabama has the highest per capita death penalty rate in the country. In some years, its courts impose more death sentences than Texas, a state that has a population five times as large
Hypocrisy much ?
 

daveza

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Or how about she just gets the morning after pill, no? Not. That. Hard.
https://cogforlife.org/morning-after-pill/

Dr. John Wilke,
Director of the Life Issues Institute in Cincinnati. “You have to talk about the physiology of this,” he said. “When the sperm is deposited in a woman’s genital tract, it reaches the ovary in 15 to 30 minutes. If she has an ovum waiting, she’s pregnant before she gets out of bed. If she conceives, these are not contraceptives. These are abortion pills — period,” he said.
 
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