US and NATO escalation of conflict with Russia is leading to war - PART 2

[Tokolosk]

United States​

On February 25, President Joe Biden instructed the State Department to release up to an additional $350m worth of weapons from US stocks to Ukraine.

The Pentagon said the weapons included anti-armour, small arms, body armour and various munitions in support of Ukraine’s front-line defenders. A State Department spokesperson said anti-aircraft systems were also included in the material.

European Union​

For the first time in its history, the EU is financing the purchase and delivery of arms after leaders agree to transport weapons worth 450 million euros ($502m) to Kyiv.

United Kingdom​

In January, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said the UK had “taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light anti-armour defensive weapon systems”.

On Wednesday, Downing Street promised military support to Ukraine, including lethal defensive weapons.

France​

France, which has already sent help, is dispatching more military equipment as well as fuel.

Paris said it has acted on earlier Ukrainian requests for defensive anti-aircraft and digital weapons.

The Netherlands​

The Netherlands will supply air defence rockets and anti-tank systems to Ukraine, the Dutch government said in letters to parliament on Saturday.

The Dutch government agreed to a Ukrainian request to rapidly ship 200 Stinger air defence rockets and 50 “Panzerfaust 3” anti-tank weapons with 400 rockets, the letters said.

It is also jointly considering sending a Patriot air defence system alongside Germany to a NATO battle group in Slovakia, it said.

Germany​

Germany will supply Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks for defence against Russia.

Canada​

Ottawa is sending lethal military weaponry to Ukraine and loaning Kyiv half a billion Canadian dollars ($394m) to help it defend itself.

Sweden, Norway and Denmark​

Stockholm is also breaking its historic neutral stance to send 5,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, with Denmark contributing a further 2,700. Norway is sending helmets and body armour and up to 2,000 M72 anti-tank weapons.

Finland​

Neutral Finland takes the “historic” decision to supply weapons to Ukraine and will send 1,500 rocket launchers, 2,500 assault rifles, 150,000 rounds of ammunition, and 70,000 servings of field rations.

Belgium​

Belgium says it will supply Ukraine with 3,000 more automatic rifles and 200 anti-tank weapons, as well as 3,800 tonnes of fuel.

Portugal​

Portugal is giving Ukraine night-vision goggles, bulletproof vests, helmets, grenades, ammunition and automatic G3 rifles.

Greece​

Greece, which has a large diaspora community in Ukraine – 10 of whom have been killed – is sending “defence equipment” as well as humanitarian aid.

Romania​

Romania – which shares a border with Ukraine – is offering to treat wounded people from the crisis zones in its 11 military hospitals as well as sending fuel, bulletproof vests, helmets and other “military material” worth $3.3m.

Spain​

The Spanish government has promised to send 20 tonnes of aid to Ukraine, mostly medical and defensive equipment such as bulletproof vests.

Czech Republic​

Prague said Saturday it is sending Ukraine 4,000 mortars “in the next few hours” as well as an arsenal of 30,000 pistols, 7,000 assault rifles, 3,000 machine guns, many sniper rifles and a million bullets.

The Czechs had already promised Kyiv 4,000 mortars worth $1.6m which have yet to be delivered.

Croatia​

Zagreb will dispatch 16 million euros’ worth of small arms and body armour.

So one question about this. Setting aside the politics and madness of Russia invading Ukraine:
Russia invades Ukraine, but then the EU sends arms to Ukraine - at what point is the EU essentially at war with Russia? At what point would Russia go "hey enough of helping them" and see the EU's help as a declaration of war, then retaliate?

 

[Wrath of Khan]

So a few things...

I think this would more than hamper Russian airline profits

And no, the aircraft won't fall apart in 3 weeks but they will legally be non-airworthy if they haven't followed their mandated maintenance schedule.
I would also be very surprised if companies like GE/Rolls etc don't have big central repair manuals and charge the airlines for access to these (revenues for the engine manfuacturers), especially given the fact that these guys also have additional monitoring packages available for their newer engines which airlines have to pay subscriptions for.
I would also be very surprised if countries that continue to allow Russian airlines to fly in their airspace don't face some sort of sanction from other countries, and that could potentially involve those countries no longer being allowed to fly outside of their and Russian space.

I also wouldn't be surprised by the 2 - 3 week spare part inventory aspect, these entites will have pared down their stock levels to the absolute minimum so that they don't have huge spare part carrying costs.

all depends on the type of issue that needs fixing.
Sure if a whole engine explodes and they need a new one, that may prove problematic.
But for now, all your basic stuff will be sorted. And the bigger the airline, like Aeroflot, would have a huge spares department.

I think this whole mini war will be over in a few weeks at max anyway. Both teams will compromise in negotiations (I think they are negotiating today for the massive assault on Kiev) one last chance to consider..

 

[Unhappy438]

Looks like they are staging for a beach landing near Odessa

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499288634599559171

 

[Deleted member 369928]

Yea.

Nobody say... Syria.

It was USA and UK that bombed Syria.

 

[GreatWmR]

 

[ToxicBunny]

all depends on the type of issue that needs fixing.
Sure if a whole engine explodes and they need a new one, that may prove problematic.
But for now, all your basic stuff will be sorted. And the bigger the airline, like Aeroflot, would have a huge spares department.

I think this whole mini war will be over in a few weeks at max anyway. Both teams will compromise in negotiations (I think they are negotiating today for the massive assault on Kiev) one last chance to consider..

I'm not entirely sure you understand how airlines do maintenance on these planes..

Every x number of flight hours a plane is literally stripped to its bones and the engines are rebuilt from the ground up effectively.

And yes a company like Aeroflot will have a huge spares department but that department will carry the absolute bare minimum stock volumes so as to have minimal impact on the bottom line of the airline.

 

[Nicodeamus]

US strategists lost empathy, along with their wars

The great realist thinker Hans Morgenthau stated that a fundamental ethical duty of the statesman is the cultivation of empathy: the ability through study to see the world through the eyes of rival state elites. Empathy in this sense is not identical with sympathy. Thus, George Kennan’s deep understanding of Stalinism led to an absolute hostility to that system.

This kind of empathy has very valuable consequences for foreign policy. It makes for an accurate assessment of another state establishment’s goals based on its own thoughts, rather than a picture of those goals generated by one’s own fears and hopes; above all, it permits one to identify the difference between the vital and secondary interests of a rival country as that country’s rulers see them.

A vital interest is one on which a state will not compromise unless faced with irresistible military or economic pressure. Otherwise, it will resist to the very limit of its ability, including, if necessary, by war. A statesman who sets out to challenge another state’s vital interests must therefore be sure not only that his or her country possesses this overwhelming power, but that it is prepared actually to use it.

US strategists lost empathy, along with their wars - Responsible Statecraft

Realists know that understanding what Russia and China will risk and why is critical to our policies going forward.

responsiblestatecraft.org

best summary of those who don't understand Russia.

Burns further elaborated in his memoir, The Back Channel, that he had noted as far back as 1995 that, "Hostility to early NATO expansion is almost universally felt across the domestic political spectrum here." In another memo to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in 2008, he wrote that,

"Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."

Burns also wrote to Rice that it would be "hard to overstate the strategic consequences" of bringing Ukraine into NATO and warned, "it will create fertile soil for Russian meddling in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."

 

[Unhappy438]

So one question about this. Setting aside the politics and madness of Russia invading Ukraine:
Russia invades Ukraine, but then the EU sends arms to Ukraine - at what point is the EU essentially at war with Russia? At what point would Russia go "hey enough of helping them" and see the EU's help as a declaration of war, then retaliate?

Its called a proxy war and its been happening between the West and East since WW2.

 

[Fulcrum29]

It is understandable when the public reports eliminated targets, but,

Air defense shot down Russian plane over Irpin – Zaluzhny

The Ukrainian Air Defense shot down a Russian aircraft over Irpin (Kyiv region), Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valeriy Zaluzhny has said.

en.interfax.com.ua

Air defense shot down Russian plane over Irpin – Zaluzhny​

The Ukrainian Air Defense shot down a Russian aircraft over Irpin (Kyiv region), Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valeriy Zaluzhny has said.

"We just shot down a Russian SU-30 aircraft over Irpin. The air defense system's crew reacted alright!" Zaluzhny wrote on Facebook on Thursday.

when military 'reports' are published on Facebook... how have times changed. Hard to trust...

 

[rambo919]

 

[Solarion]

Putin knows everyone is watching. Cameras everywhere. I just don't think that he is doing what people think he is doing and that all of the military manoeuvres and lights and dazzle are a ruse for something else coming.

 

[MiW]

I'm not entirely sure you understand how airlines do maintenance on these planes..

Every x number of flight hours a plane is literally stripped to its bones and the engines are rebuilt from the ground up effectively.

And yes a company like Aeroflot will have a huge spares department but that department will carry the absolute bare minimum stock volumes so as to have minimal impact on the bottom line of the airline.

He is completely missing the point that Russia owns very few of the planes they use.

 

[ToxicBunny]

He is completely missing the point that Russia owns very few of the planes they use.

I'm personally not getting into that, as I don't have even the vaguest clue about that.... but it wouldn't surprise me of course given that many airlines don't operate owned aircraft, and rather have complicated company structures that lease planes to the main airline.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I have to give it to the Russians,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499117406370807817

This ️ uses @FoxNews materials for information purposes only. It DOES NOT feature political/military experts & was aired by well-known media outlet. If "Russian propaganda" does not fit your taste, we hope you will appreciate what your US partners say.

even in war, they still crack me up.

 

[Tun@]

United States​

On February 25, President Joe Biden instructed the State Department to release up to an additional $350m worth of weapons from US stocks to Ukraine.

The Pentagon said the weapons included anti-armour, small arms, body armour and various munitions in support of Ukraine’s front-line defenders. A State Department spokesperson said anti-aircraft systems were also included in the material.

European Union​

For the first time in its history, the EU is financing the purchase and delivery of arms after leaders agree to transport weapons worth 450 million euros ($502m) to Kyiv.

United Kingdom​

In January, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said the UK had “taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light anti-armour defensive weapon systems”.

On Wednesday, Downing Street promised military support to Ukraine, including lethal defensive weapons.

France​

France, which has already sent help, is dispatching more military equipment as well as fuel.

Paris said it has acted on earlier Ukrainian requests for defensive anti-aircraft and digital weapons.

The Netherlands​

The Netherlands will supply air defence rockets and anti-tank systems to Ukraine, the Dutch government said in letters to parliament on Saturday.

The Dutch government agreed to a Ukrainian request to rapidly ship 200 Stinger air defence rockets and 50 “Panzerfaust 3” anti-tank weapons with 400 rockets, the letters said.

It is also jointly considering sending a Patriot air defence system alongside Germany to a NATO battle group in Slovakia, it said.

Germany​

Germany will supply Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks for defence against Russia.

Canada​

Ottawa is sending lethal military weaponry to Ukraine and loaning Kyiv half a billion Canadian dollars ($394m) to help it defend itself.

Sweden, Norway and Denmark​

Stockholm is also breaking its historic neutral stance to send 5,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, with Denmark contributing a further 2,700. Norway is sending helmets and body armour and up to 2,000 M72 anti-tank weapons.

Finland​

Neutral Finland takes the “historic” decision to supply weapons to Ukraine and will send 1,500 rocket launchers, 2,500 assault rifles, 150,000 rounds of ammunition, and 70,000 servings of field rations.

Belgium​

Belgium says it will supply Ukraine with 3,000 more automatic rifles and 200 anti-tank weapons, as well as 3,800 tonnes of fuel.

Portugal​

Portugal is giving Ukraine night-vision goggles, bulletproof vests, helmets, grenades, ammunition and automatic G3 rifles.

Greece​

Greece, which has a large diaspora community in Ukraine – 10 of whom have been killed – is sending “defence equipment” as well as humanitarian aid.

Romania​

Romania – which shares a border with Ukraine – is offering to treat wounded people from the crisis zones in its 11 military hospitals as well as sending fuel, bulletproof vests, helmets and other “military material” worth $3.3m.

Spain​

The Spanish government has promised to send 20 tonnes of aid to Ukraine, mostly medical and defensive equipment such as bulletproof vests.

Czech Republic​

Prague said Saturday it is sending Ukraine 4,000 mortars “in the next few hours” as well as an arsenal of 30,000 pistols, 7,000 assault rifles, 3,000 machine guns, many sniper rifles and a million bullets.

The Czechs had already promised Kyiv 4,000 mortars worth $1.6m which have yet to be delivered.

Croatia​

Zagreb will dispatch 16 million euros’ worth of small arms and body armour.

^^ Enter Russia's excuse for a new border or to not go home at all.

 

[Wut]

He is completely missing the point that Russia owns very few of the planes they use.

And how many Russians are wanting to travel at the moment?

 

[Charlesjjm]

So you finally got upgraded...

 

[Tokolosk]

Its called a proxy war and its been happening between the West and East since WW2.

Yes I understand that, but this seems like a whole new scale of proxying. Anyway, was probably a rhetorical question as we won't know when Russia feels enough is enough.

 

[Solarion]

I've not received a single Junk mail in 4 days. Which tells me all the spammers are either Russian or Ukrainian

 

[buka001]

Now to send it to them, to date nothing none of those have made to Ukraine.
Who will fly that plane to Ukraine? Boris contradicted himself when he said they can’t get involved, they can’t supply weapons, they can’t instate a no fly zone, they can’t do anything without lighting the flame and giving Russia a green light to attack Europe.
Those are just promises, promises.
Apart from Turkey supplying drones which are already in use.

The weapons have arrived. Shipments arrived yesterday and the day before.

Inside your Russian echo bubble you won't see this.

You want to be ignorant.